[gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Michał Górny]

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Hello,

Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.

This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested by
his employer.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny


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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Brian Dolbec]

On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 18:18:43 +0200
Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with
> companies using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
> 
> This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
> their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
> between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested
> by his employer.
> 

I am not currently employed, so no corporate affiliation.  I consider
myself semi-retired at this point.

Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Robin H. Johnson]

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On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 06:18:43PM +0200, Michał Górny wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
While I would like to know this information, I'm not sure that it can be
disclosed in every case. 

I would consider it entirely possible that a council member works for a
company, that has then bound via NDA, to not be permitted to make public
statements about what their company uses or does not use.

Further, for larger companies, I would see it entirely possible that the
council member does not know about Gentoo usage in every corner of the
company: the company is just too large.

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Dev, Infra Lead, Foundation Treasurer
E-Mail   : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85
GnuPG FP : 7D0B3CEB E9B85B1F 825BCECF EE05E6F6 A48F6136

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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 1:36 PM Robin H. Johnson <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 06:18:43PM +0200, Michał Górny wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> > the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> > in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> > using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
> While I would like to know this information, I'm not sure that it can be
> disclosed in every case.
>
> I would consider it entirely possible that a council member works for a
> company, that has then bound via NDA, to not be permitted to make public
> statements about what their company uses or does not use.
>
> Further, for larger companies, I would see it entirely possible that the
> council member does not know about Gentoo usage in every corner of the
> company: the company is just too large.

I would leave it to individuals to disclose what they can.

I think the main concern is with people affiliated with companies who
are paying them to develop for Gentoo since the company uses Gentoo.
Ie their employer has a direct interest in what we're doing.

If you work in a mailroom at Airbus you probably wouldn't know if
somebody is using Gentoo in the A380 flight control system, but really
that isn't the kind of relationship most here are likely to care about
anyway.

I don't think there should be an expectation that people disclose all
their other affiliations if they have nothing at all to do with
Gentoo.  The concern is that some company is paying somebody to run
for the Council/etc.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Matt Turner]

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 9:18 AM Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
>
> This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
> their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
> between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested by
> his employer.

I work for Intel (on Mesa).

I'm not aware of any usage of Gentoo in Intel outside of support of ChromeOS.

Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Alec Warner]

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On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 9:18 AM Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
>
> This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
> their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
> between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested by
> his employer.
>

I'm not sure why we would single out employment here; surely there are
other potential relationships that could give rise to conflicts? Why are
these excluded from disclosure?

-A


>
> --
> Best regards,
> Michał Górny
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Michał Górny]

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On Mon, 2020-06-22 at 11:56 -0700, Alec Warner wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 9:18 AM Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> > the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> > in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> > using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
> > 
> > This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
> > their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
> > between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested by
> > his employer.
> > 
> 
> I'm not sure why we would single out employment here; surely there are
> other potential relationships that could give rise to conflicts? Why are
> these excluded from disclosure?
> 

You are correct.  I should've asked if there's anything that might be
consired a conflict of interest.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny


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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Andreas K. Hüttel]

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Am Montag, 22. Juni 2020, 21:56:06 EEST schrieb Alec Warner:
> 
> I'm not sure why we would single out employment here; surely there are
> other potential relationships that could give rise to conflicts? Why are
> these excluded from disclosure?
> 

Because money is a powerful (and socially accepted) incentive.

(Is anyone here bribed with sex to work on sci-* ebuilds?)

-- 
Andreas K. Hüttel
dilfridge@gentoo.org
Gentoo Linux developer 
(council, qa, toolchain, base-system, perl, libreoffice)

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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Michał Górny]

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On Wed, 2020-06-24 at 00:17 +0300, Andreas K. Hüttel wrote:
> Am Montag, 22. Juni 2020, 21:56:06 EEST schrieb Alec Warner:
> > I'm not sure why we would single out employment here; surely there are
> > other potential relationships that could give rise to conflicts? Why are
> > these excluded from disclosure?
> > 
> 
> Because money is a powerful (and socially accepted) incentive.
> 

To be honest, he's right.  Money is not specific to employment.  Imagine
someone running a Gentoo fork, with its own community, donations or
other source of income.  It's still money, still potential source of
conflict, but not employment ;-).  Like when Gentoo implements something
their distro boasted of, and now their users may choose vanilla Gentoo.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny


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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 1:53 AM Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2020-06-24 at 00:17 +0300, Andreas K. Hüttel wrote:
> > Am Montag, 22. Juni 2020, 21:56:06 EEST schrieb Alec Warner:
> > > I'm not sure why we would single out employment here; surely there are
> > > other potential relationships that could give rise to conflicts? Why are
> > > these excluded from disclosure?
> > >
> >
> > Because money is a powerful (and socially accepted) incentive.
> >
>
> To be honest, he's right.  Money is not specific to employment.  Imagine
> someone running a Gentoo fork, with its own community, donations or
> other source of income.  It's still money, still potential source of
> conflict, but not employment ;-).  Like when Gentoo implements something
> their distro boasted of, and now their users may choose vanilla Gentoo.

Most organizations have a policy around conflicts of interest (in part
because if you're 501c3 the IRS will ask you every year if you have
one).  Receiving money from an organization certainly is on that list.
Usually ownership, being on a board or being an officer in an org is
listed as well (which might cover this).  Family relationships with
people in those situations are also usually on the list.

Beyond that though I think that a lot of things that are considered a
"conflict of interest" around here are not considered conflicts in
most organization.  I've beaten that horse to death and I suspect my
opinion is in the minority on that point (within Gentoo, but not
outside of this org), so I'll leave it at that.


-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Ulrich Mueller]

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>>>>> On Mon, 22 Jun 2020, Michał Górny wrote:

> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with
> companies using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.

> This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
> their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
> between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested
> by his employer.

I am affiliated with an university in Germany, and I am neither being
paid nor receiving any directions for my activities as a Gentoo
developer.

Ulrich

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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[William Hubbs]

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On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 06:18:43PM +0200, Michał Górny wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
> 
> This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
> their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
> between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested by
> his employer.

I work for a division of Sony Interactive Entertainment.

My division uses Gentoo, and contributes to Gentoo on company time.

In my position on the council I do not speak for Sony.

William


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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Thomas Deutschmann]

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On 2020-06-22 18:18, Michał Górny wrote:
> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
> 
> This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
> their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
> between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested by
> his employer.

I am getting paid to maintain a cluster running Gentoo Linux (400+
machines at the moment).

I am not getting paid for my contribution to Gentoo.

I do care about keeping Gentoo useful for any professional usage. That
doesn't mean I don't like progress but I am not a fan of new ideas that
have not been thought through to the end (and yes, people who never had
to deal with large setups, who only maintaining their own system, have a
biased view and other problems like people running Gentoo on servers and
have to run applications they can't easily change just to adapt to some
new ideas).

But like I have written in my previous manifests for the past two years,
I am not running for council to pursue my own agenda/ideas. I have
'radical' ideas like there shouldn't be any discussions during council
meeting. Instead council should just vote because discussion should have
happen in the public (mailing list) and results should represent the
majority of the Gentoo community and not the opinion of individual
council members.

I would therefore rather abstain or even resign and free up my place
should I absolutely not be able to support a majority decision of the
community because this is against my own conviction.


-- 
Regards,
Thomas Deutschmann / Gentoo Linux Developer
fpr: C4DD 695F A713 8F24 2AA1 5638 5849 7EE5 1D5D 74A5


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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Patrick Lauer]

On 2020-06-22 18:18, Michał Górny wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
> 
> This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
> their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
> between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested by
> his employer.
> 

As you may or may not know I've been working at Adjust GmbH 
(www.adjust.com) for the last almost 5 years.

Most of my job is babysitting a fleet of around 1000 servers running 
Gentoo, and ensure things work. I've had a few silly job titles, but I'm 
basically still Fixer of Things. (We're hiring!)

This inherently makes me motivated to have things in a sane state - e.g. 
packages actually compiling, updates not breaking and other very 
outdated traditional ideas about software development.

(And this is why I'm against things like the current py2 purge: There is 
code out there that works, can't be rewritten to py3 in a reasonable 
time*, and hasn't been rewritten in another language yet. There is no 
fundamental reason to exorcise all things older than 6 weeks, and it 
just forces me to spend time on useless busywork instead of doing 
something useful.
And it's inconsistent - packages like chromium won't get masked, because 
... err... ?
But I don't have the time to fight against this madness, so I just move 
everything useful to an overlay where it is vandalism-safe. Somehow that 
doesn't sound like a smart strategy to me but what can you do)

This doesn't mean I'm a statist, progress can be nice, but these days 
it's both computationally expensive with some packages taking more than 
a cpu-day to build, and lots of breakage because very few upstreams to 
anything resembling software engineering.
(e.g. gcc breaking ABI (wtf gcc5), glibc breaking collation (glibc 2.28 
which makes updating things exquisitely super fun times), random 
packages bundling in LLVM, openssl** and whatever else looks cute)

tl;dr: I want to be lazy, so stop breaking stuff ;)

Have fun,

Patrick



* "can't be rewritten" - there's some corners of python like 
manipulating binary data that are not cleanly portable to py3, and the 
people who would do the rewrite-from-scratch prefer using other 
languages like Go that don't mutate as fast (since rewriting sucks); as 
such this legacy py2 code will exist until it is either no longer 
needed, or the cost of rewriting is smaller than the negligible cost of 
maintenance.

** yes, a bundled-in security issue. Isn't it great!

Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Andreas K. Hüttel]

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Am Dienstag, 23. Juni 2020, 20:48:04 EEST schrieb Patrick Lauer:

> (And this is why I'm against things like the current py2 purge: There is
> code out there that works, can't be rewritten to py3 in a reasonable
> time*, and hasn't been rewritten in another language yet. There is no

> tl;dr: I want to be lazy, so stop breaking stuff ;)

You gotta be kidding me. 

If your employer wants to work on obsolete (yes) stuff, he should task you 
with maintaining it. 

In the context of a distribution that does *not* only mean "keep things until 
they are so rotten you can't distinguish them from the floor anymore", but it 
also means fixing bugs and keeping the dependency tree in a sane state.

So, in this case I would strongly recommend to the higher-ups of A***** to pay 
you (or anyone else) to commit to keeping 
* not just what *you* need in Python2 maintained and working, but
* to maintain the whole python-related package tree in a consistent state 
then. 
Not just complaining that others don't volunteer the work.

(This argument applies equally to other cases, like S***.)

-- 
Andreas K. Hüttel
dilfridge@gentoo.org
Gentoo Linux developer 
(council, qa, toolchain, base-system, perl, libreoffice)

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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Patrick Lauer]

On 2020-06-23 22:50, Andreas K. Hüttel wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 23. Juni 2020, 20:48:04 EEST schrieb Patrick Lauer:
> 
>> (And this is why I'm against things like the current py2 purge: There is
>> code out there that works, can't be rewritten to py3 in a reasonable
>> time*, and hasn't been rewritten in another language yet. There is no
> 
>> tl;dr: I want to be lazy, so stop breaking stuff ;)
> 
> You gotta be kidding me.
> 
> If your employer wants to work on obsolete (yes) stuff, he should task you
> with maintaining it.
> 
> In the context of a distribution that does *not* only mean "keep things until
> they are so rotten you can't distinguish them from the floor anymore", but it
> also means fixing bugs and keeping the dependency tree in a sane state.
> 
> So, in this case I would strongly recommend to the higher-ups of A***** to pay
> you (or anyone else) to commit to keeping
> * not just what *you* need in Python2 maintained and working, but
> * to maintain the whole python-related package tree in a consistent state
> then.
> Not just complaining that others don't volunteer the work.
> 
> (This argument applies equally to other cases, like S***.)
> 

So, uhm.
I'll let you claim it was late and the beer was talking.

But that's a totally incoherent hallucination you're projecting on me.


The problem with 'obsolete' stuff is that it's often very useful, but no 
one wants to spend time rewriting it.

So for example, codeswarm. The log parser it uses to convert 
cvs/svn/git... logs into an intermediate representation is most horrible 
python. I've patched it just enough to satisfy my needs, so I can make 
nice codeswarm videos, but upstream went dormant around 2012. no chance 
of having that rewritten into py3.

Young startups like Google struggle to find the manpower to migrate, see 
for example Chromium still requiring python2 because ... err... yes.

Most of the stuff from the Apache Foundation is similarly unmaintained, 
but the useful parts are useful so people will use them. Rewriting lots 
of enterprisey code is no fun, so it won't happen soon.

If I'm not mistaken 'offlineimap' is similarly bitrotting away.


At work I have one (1) legacy bit that's used in monitoring that uses 
python2, and it'll age out at some point and doesn't /need/ rewriting 
because, well, why rewrite what goes into the trash can.
(Meanwhile I don't remember any code changes since perl 5.18 or so, that 
stuff Just Works, even Go is easy to update with literally 4 lines of 
code changing from 1.11 to 1.12 - so low-maintenance things exist, they 
are just old and boring and no one talks about them)

Your hallucination that we don't update things is fascinating, but not 
based on any observations.

But there's one difficulty in upgrading: Some migrations are 
destructively expensive, and can't be automated easily. It took us crazy 
long to migrate everything to gcc5 because upstream was unwilling to 
understand dynamic linking. Incidents like that make one more 
conservative ... and it would be nice if gentoo could be at least 
neutral and not act as a damage amplifier for such situations.

Similarly, EOL'ing python 3.5 in Gentoo ahead of upstream caused a 
little bit of friction and forced some people to spend time they had 
budgeted about 2-3 months later roughly now. Which doesn't increase 
their motivation, but who needs friends when you have a nice up to date 
Gentoo.

Would be nice if we could minimize churn, and have reasonable upgrade 
paths. Then maybe our users would spend less time on upgrades and more 
on contributions (or do we want to make things artificially difficult so 
we can pretend to be elite?)


Have fun,

Patrick

Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[David Seifert]

On Wed, 2020-06-24 at 21:30 +0200, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> On 2020-06-23 22:50, Andreas K. Hüttel wrote:
> > Am Dienstag, 23. Juni 2020, 20:48:04 EEST schrieb Patrick Lauer:
> > 
> > > (And this is why I'm against things like the current py2 purge:
> > > There is
> > > code out there that works, can't be rewritten to py3 in a
> > > reasonable
> > > time*, and hasn't been rewritten in another language yet. There is
> > > no
> > > tl;dr: I want to be lazy, so stop breaking stuff ;)
> > 
> > You gotta be kidding me.
> > 
> > If your employer wants to work on obsolete (yes) stuff, he should
> > task you
> > with maintaining it.
> > 
> > In the context of a distribution that does *not* only mean "keep
> > things until
> > they are so rotten you can't distinguish them from the floor
> > anymore", but it
> > also means fixing bugs and keeping the dependency tree in a sane
> > state.
> > 
> > So, in this case I would strongly recommend to the higher-ups of
> > A***** to pay
> > you (or anyone else) to commit to keeping
> > * not just what *you* need in Python2 maintained and working, but
> > * to maintain the whole python-related package tree in a consistent
> > state
> > then.
> > Not just complaining that others don't volunteer the work.
> > 
> > (This argument applies equally to other cases, like S***.)
> > 
> 
> So, uhm.
> I'll let you claim it was late and the beer was talking.
> 
> But that's a totally incoherent hallucination you're projecting on me.
> 
> 
> The problem with 'obsolete' stuff is that it's often very useful, but
> no 
> one wants to spend time rewriting it.
> 
> So for example, codeswarm. The log parser it uses to convert 
> cvs/svn/git... logs into an intermediate representation is most
> horrible 
> python. I've patched it just enough to satisfy my needs, so I can
> make 
> nice codeswarm videos, but upstream went dormant around 2012. no
> chance 
> of having that rewritten into py3.
> 
> Young startups like Google struggle to find the manpower to migrate,
> see 
> for example Chromium still requiring python2 because ... err... yes.
> 
> Most of the stuff from the Apache Foundation is similarly
> unmaintained, 
> but the useful parts are useful so people will use them. Rewriting
> lots 
> of enterprisey code is no fun, so it won't happen soon.
> 
> If I'm not mistaken 'offlineimap' is similarly bitrotting away.
> 
> 
> At work I have one (1) legacy bit that's used in monitoring that uses 
> python2, and it'll age out at some point and doesn't /need/ rewriting 
> because, well, why rewrite what goes into the trash can.
> (Meanwhile I don't remember any code changes since perl 5.18 or so,
> that 
> stuff Just Works, even Go is easy to update with literally 4 lines of 
> code changing from 1.11 to 1.12 - so low-maintenance things exist,
> they 
> are just old and boring and no one talks about them)
> 
> Your hallucination that we don't update things is fascinating, but
> not 
> based on any observations.
> 
> But there's one difficulty in upgrading: Some migrations are 
> destructively expensive, and can't be automated easily. It took us
> crazy 
> long to migrate everything to gcc5 because upstream was unwilling to 
> understand dynamic linking. Incidents like that make one more 
> conservative ... and it would be nice if gentoo could be at least 
> neutral and not act as a damage amplifier for such situations.
> 
> Similarly, EOL'ing python 3.5 in Gentoo ahead of upstream caused a 
> little bit of friction and forced some people to spend time they had 
> budgeted about 2-3 months later roughly now. Which doesn't increase 
> their motivation, but who needs friends when you have a nice up to
> date 
> Gentoo.
> 
> Would be nice if we could minimize churn, and have reasonable upgrade 
> paths. Then maybe our users would spend less time on upgrades and
> more 
> on contributions (or do we want to make things artificially difficult
> so 
> we can pretend to be elite?)
> 
> 
> Have fun,
> 
> Patrick
> 

Nothing here involves you doing anything to that end. Have you worked on
making py3.7-stable a thing? No ofc not, you just demand "minimizing
churn", without actually doing anything. Are you going to maintain the
web of old-versions-supporting-py2 and newer-versions-supporting-only-
py3? Again, of course not, you just demand others do the work for you.
Case in point: Not a single commit of yours that references a bug number
is GLEP 66 compliant, you continue adding ebuilds without doing a single
GLEP 81 port. It's obvious that ::gentoo is just an extended overlay for
you, because all the best practices clearly don't apply to you.

Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Andreas K. Hüttel]

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Am Mittwoch, 24. Juni 2020, 22:30:08 EEST schrieb Patrick Lauer:
> 
> So, uhm.
> I'll let you claim it was late and the beer was talking.
> 
> But that's a totally incoherent hallucination you're projecting on me.
>
[...]
> 
> Your hallucination that we don't update things is fascinating, but not
> based on any observations.
> 

It's based on my observations of your Gentoo contributions. 
If the code quality at work is the same as in Gentoo, then nothing is updated. 

-- 
Andreas K. Hüttel
dilfridge@gentoo.org
Gentoo Linux developer 
(council, qa, toolchain, base-system, perl, libreoffice)

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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Patrick Lauer]

On 2020-06-24 22:08, Andreas K. Hüttel wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 24. Juni 2020, 22:30:08 EEST schrieb Patrick Lauer:
>>
>> So, uhm.
>> I'll let you claim it was late and the beer was talking.
>>
>> But that's a totally incoherent hallucination you're projecting on me.
>>
> [...]
>>
>> Your hallucination that we don't update things is fascinating, but not
>> based on any observations.
>>
> 
> It's based on my observations of your Gentoo contributions.
> If the code quality at work is the same as in Gentoo, then nothing is updated.
> 

Sigh.

You're /really/ aiming low these days.

So just for the record -

I've been a bit less active in gentoo land because my son had leukemia.

In February he had his immune system rebooted with a stem cell 
transplant, so he's in a reasonably good state now.

As you may or may not be able to imagine this has been slightly 
stressful and time-consuming.


I don't like to bring my personal troubles into the public sphere, but 
claiming I'm lazy when you're very aware of the situation is quite 
exquisitely rude. You should feel bad.

The shitty discussion style on the mailing lists has motivated me to not 
actively engage in discussions, because within about 30 minutes we're 
bikeshedding ad hominems instead of having a meaningful conversation.
It's just horribly tedious and unproductive, but "we've always done it 
like this" etc.etc.


I wonder if all y'all communicate like this at work, or if Gentoo is the 
safe space where you can let out all the frustrations ...

Anyway. Enough said.

May you dream of being happy.

Good night,

Patrick

Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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> >> Your hallucination that we don't update things is fascinating, but not
> >> based on any observations.
> > 
> > It's based on my observations of your Gentoo contributions.
> > If the code quality at work is the same as in Gentoo, then nothing is
> > updated.
> Sigh.
> 
> You're /really/ aiming low these days.
> 
> So just for the record -
> 
> I've been a bit less active in gentoo land because my son had leukemia.
> In February he had his immune system rebooted with a stem cell
> transplant, so he's in a reasonably good state now.

Patrick, 

I *know* that already, and you have my full condolences for it. But it's not 
as if things have varied too much Gentoo-wise over the last 10 years. 
Including the outcome of these mailing list discussions, which from my 
(admittedly fallible) memory tend to both start and end in a similar 
fashion...

-A

-- 
Andreas K. Hüttel
dilfridge@gentoo.org
Gentoo Linux developer
(council, toolchain, base-system, perl, libreoffice)

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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Andreas K. Hüttel]

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Am Montag, 22. Juni 2020, 19:18:43 EEST schrieb Michał Górny:
> Hello,
> 
> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.

I'm affiliated with (though currently not paid by) a university in Germany, 
and currently employed by a university in Finland. 

My research group in Germany uses Gentoo for measurement control. That's my 
decision, mostly because I know it best and because it's waaay more uptodate 
than the IT department-provided Debian. Also it helps to be able to fix bugs 
myself. :)

Apart from that I am not paid for anything Gentoo, and no third parties 
significantly influence my Gentoo-related decisions.

-- 
Andreas K. Hüttel
dilfridge@gentoo.org
Gentoo Linux developer 
(council, qa, toolchain, base-system, perl, libreoffice)

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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Max Magorsch]

I'm working for a research organization in Germany. My employer
neither gives me any directions nor pays me for my activities as a
Gentoo developer.

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 4:18 PM Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
>
> This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
> their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
> between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested by
> his employer.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Michał Górny
>

Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Aaron Bauman]

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On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 06:18:43PM +0200, Michał Górny wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
> 
> This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
> their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
> between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested by
> his employer.
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Michał Górny
> 

My company does not run Gentoo and has no interest in it. My interest is
purely to support the distribution in any way I can.

-- 
Cheers,
Aaron

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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Mikle Kolyada]

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On 22.06.2020 19:18, Michał Górny wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
>
> This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
> their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
> between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested by
> his employer.
>

Hi,
my employment is not a big secret.
I am working for the oil production company and make a research there.
I am not getting paid for maintaining gentoo,
even though we are running a custom gentoo fork
(own portage mostly, far diverged from gentoo's one).


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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Georgy Yakovlev]

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On 6/22/20 9:18 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
> 
> This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
> their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
> between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested by
> his employer.
> 

Hi,

I'm a bit late to the party, was away without internet access most of
the week.

I work at Sony / PlayStation, like some other people do.

Things I do at dayjob have very little in common with gentoo work I'm
doing or interested in, but the following exceptions:

- I maintain handful of python packages, nothing critical here, some
will be dropped after py3.6 goes away completely.

- I maintain openjdk* for work purposes.
and icedtea*, because I have to and nobody else will.

While only one JDK variant I use at dayjob, I do extra work for
community, maintaining openjdk8 openjdk11 openjdk8-bin openjdk11-bin
openjdk-jre-bin icedtea(via proxying upstream) icedtea-bin on amd64 arm
arm64 ppc ppc64 ppc64le x86 with a mix of openjfx and musl(soon). That's
a lot of builds.
The equipment to maintain jdk on all those platforms is my own or
provided by Gentoo (qemu does not work for it, cross is questionable).

I don't receive guidance or requests from employer on how gentoo and/or
council work should be done, decisions are mine, community comes first.

The only real requirement is assigning copyright properly. That's it.
I almost never commit from work, because work done at my own time using
my or gentoo equipment, hence my commits are not copyrighted.



Feel free to ask questions if you have any.

Regards, Georgy.


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Re: [gentoo-project] Corporate affiliations of Council members

[Richard Yao]

> On Jun 22, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Here's another question for the Council nominees.  I'd like to ask
> the Council members to disclose their corporate affiliations,
> in particular whether they are employed or in partnership with companies
> using Gentoo or Gentoo derivatives.
> 
> This is because I believe that the electorate deserves to know whether
> their elected Council member may end up being in conflict of interest
> between doing what's right by the wide community and what's requested by
> his employer.

I understand the motivation for having this information available, but I have full confidence that all council members will make decisions in the best interest the entire community regardless of conflicts of interest. I am not on the council, but I am receiving money from buurst inc for upstream work that is only superficially related to Gentoo. My statements are not influenced by third parties.

Also, acting in the best interest of the entire community requires considering everyone’s needs when making decisions. Corporate interests are a part of that and they therefore should be given some sort of weight in decisions. As a distribution, we generally do a good job of supporting various use cases, so conflicts are less of an issue for us than they are for others.

Lastly, I hope that in trying to avoid one extreme, we do not accidentally go into the opposite extreme. Becoming anti-corporation in the process of trying to avoid being anti-consumer helps no one, including consumers. Not that I think we are, but it is possible to go so far in the perceived direction of neutrality that we overshoot the point of neutrality and gain a bias that is the opposite of the bias that concerned us. Being aware of that is important .
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Michał Górny