From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8511139085 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:54:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C843DE0DBE; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:54:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from avasout03.plus.net (avasout03.plus.net [84.93.230.244]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F881E0DBD for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:54:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.6.147] ([209.93.173.178]) by avasout03 with smtp id dBuL1u0023rJG9t01BuMfa; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:54:21 +0000 X-CM-Score: 0.00 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=Xen59Mx5 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=4zaNbBhX470b0gJZ7X1HNg==:117 a=4zaNbBhX470b0gJZ7X1HNg==:17 a=13zjGPudsaEWiJwPRgMA:9 a=WbPmnYzAfxEA:10 a=7mOBRU54AAAA:8 a=mkjSggjqufb5Xfv2u4sA:9 a=vq-jorSTGwUSVNvS:21 a=tAcg2_DNIH4t6L9f:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=USH0TZGzYynBefz_9ZwA:9 a=ONNS8QRKHyMA:10 a=wa9RWnbW_A1YIeRBVszw:22 Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Extending Social Contract to guarantee that Gentoo will remain volunteer work To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <20170126160317.1d609eff.mgorny@gentoo.org> <20170127121256.386cbbb3@katipo2.lan> From: "M. J. Everitt" Openpgp: id=BA266E0525CFAB101523351B4C30334F93C22371 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:54:19 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170127121256.386cbbb3@katipo2.lan> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LCo4gawOv3i5O8HUHEOlxpeBp08Dlc7Xt" X-Archives-Salt: 5ba46cff-f2e5-4ba2-b028-014370ef67da X-Archives-Hash: 9d6959e5118ed362db43be85c6bbf82c This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --LCo4gawOv3i5O8HUHEOlxpeBp08Dlc7Xt Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="sOWaMKCWqMqrAVp0XfFvPCFHHpEJmJL7o" From: "M. J. Everitt" To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Extending Social Contract to guarantee that Gentoo will remain volunteer work References: <20170126160317.1d609eff.mgorny@gentoo.org> <20170127121256.386cbbb3@katipo2.lan> In-Reply-To: <20170127121256.386cbbb3@katipo2.lan> --sOWaMKCWqMqrAVp0XfFvPCFHHpEJmJL7o Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 26/01/17 23:12, Kent Fredric wrote: > On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 16:03:17 +0100 > Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > >> The main idea is to protect volunteers spending their time on Gentoo. >> I don't want to learn one day that my opinion doesn't matter anymore >> because a new lead (Council, Trustees, Board, BDFL or any other >> possible future form) decides that they/he/she will use the donation >> money to hire paid workers doing the Gentoo work that they desire. >> >> I believe that any possible lead Gentoo might elect in the future >> should still represent the whole Gentoo community, and the community >> should have the right to refuse to follow the directions set by >> the lead if he/she stops listening to the community. As volunteers, >> we have the right to refuse to do something that in our opinion harms >> Gentoo. >> >> Sadly, this could become pointless if the leading bodies keep the powe= r >> to hire people to work on Gentoo for money. This means that effectivel= y >> they have the power to spend Gentoo money on pursuing their own goals >> as long as they can legally claim that the work is done for >> the benefit of Gentoo. In volunteer-based project, they effectively >> have to *convince* others to work on their ideas and/or spend >> a significant effort working on them themselves. >> >> The other part is pretty much a formality, that means to make it clear= >> that Gentoo is not supposed to be bribed by third-party companies to >> alter its course. I don't think it really changes anything but it look= s >> like a nice thing to state. >> >> I should note that this doesn't mean to prevent anyone from being paid= >> by third parties to work on Gentoo, or receive any money on account of= >> what he did or is doing for Gentoo. I think that's fine as long as >> the wider Gentoo community has the right to reject any work that it >> sees unfit. > I fear this suggestion will have the exact opposite effect to that inte= nded. > > If its not possible to invest money in developers to improve Gentoo, th= en > you're guaranteeing that every developer who contributes to Gentoo must= do > so under the assumption that they get their income elsewhere. > > Which might demand that in order to survive, somebody will have to work= for some > company in order to survive, and the company will absorb much of their = time, > time which they could be contributing to Gentoo, which they must instea= d focus into > private enterprise. > > And that may also force the developer to focus their development effort= s for Gentoo > in ways that profit only their employer, while not caring about the use= r base of Gentoo. > > And this is a huge problem in OSS these days. > > The inability to survive on it in a Captialist World basically makes op= ensource an=20 > adversary of survial. > > I myself know of people who have small mounds of personal debt in the i= nterest of looking > after their opensource objectives, and its just not sustainable. > > To the point that, as long as we live in this world, we *need* infrastr= ucture in place > to guarantee that we have the resources to ensure we have developers fo= r the projects > that need to be done. > > Until then, you're basically hedging bets on people being able to scalp= company time for gentoo, > betting on people being able to live two lives so they can help gentoo,= betting on the developers > ability to obtain welfare to support themselves while they contribute t= o gentoo, or betting on > a relatively distant future where the world is progressive enough to cr= eate UBI. > > Its burning the candle at both ends in the mean time, while median inco= me declines vs inflation > in many countries, making your developer base atrophy as it becomes pro= gressively harder to > support yourself and have energy to contribute. > +1 Well articulated and summarised, thanks Kent. --sOWaMKCWqMqrAVp0XfFvPCFHHpEJmJL7o-- --LCo4gawOv3i5O8HUHEOlxpeBp08Dlc7Xt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJYiowsAAoJEN7KWvRhIveDc4UP/A86XVzj07xGqyC2VEEC02N9 y7qz6dzmi1VL0BAAAsrULy0L11Lm8OWsXtUHkUjSeoLXKUPIiwTQ56ge9JAvS4Ib ehlq564DM5TfdBwJJt3SJquWdjUEj4ofQBDFEY/+JNsVI3Uwz56RQ18FGKdgpJtI iMqqlVr36Ej1Ht5paWrWI8dSCoEukL9vtZXJRj0KI/PwkQef7jT6l0fEbRCJFalM qJUO+44HhjL8AmybLET99bzLBXMf91sVTdh47N0hS0iOAQYFHLuJ7KUH4/xyDCzB hpw6d+tmizrOp6K8bfDTgYFGP07xhMU1+FEwU3Ed7hOqMAXPqcLb8PQWiIihRh5T Lz5A1iYEu9ENwmLZ52N81uWHP1AGu22iT796MjoEqcFi4zDyRvTJSV39KSWR0QwA v0N/hqtH9pW9fwwFOfyZCODvDoCRYkQyD+fOQY7XFT0daNnehJsvF7h688U36M3K ysKjRkzoOf+o8wt8BRYlRACXV5Jhdfumo2SG0Lk4yOUBxyze88FFHR6tEW/8JuaM 5BqBIgi4v8mMEF0xuNqu8pErQI/izHp6dlyeTi1yyMaaQuwQXxfdo6XcxrdJjzqc IFv3Oe4Olv5tRifefgZXnkQNfHKOBDMIvaiv9kafo5aOt/kcKvEcok4Lp7nWOB+o urxbgAHtstILXtlaYL6C =nlhr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LCo4gawOv3i5O8HUHEOlxpeBp08Dlc7Xt--