From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1768139085 for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 18:54:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E086D21C094; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 18:54:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail2.obsidian-studios.com (mail2.obsidian-studios.com [45.79.71.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8993221C093 for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 18:54:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 9723 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2017 18:54:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO assp2.obsidian-studios.com) (wlt@::ffff:127.0.0.1) by ::ffff:127.0.0.1 with ESMTPA; 17 Jan 2017 18:54:35 -0000 X-Assp-Version: 2.5.3(16294) on assp2.obsidian-studios.com X-Assp-ID: assp2.obsidian-studios.com m1-79275-06504 X-Assp-Session: 37818F6B1E0 (mail 1) X-Assp-Envelope-From: wlt-ml@o-sinc.com X-Assp-Intended-For: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Assp-Server-TLS: yes Received: from unknown ([fdbe:bad:a55:0:1::211] helo=wlt.localnet) by assp2.obsidian-studios.com with SMTPSA(TLSv1_2 ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256) (2.5.3); 17 Jan 2017 10:54:34 -0800 From: "William L. Thomson Jr." To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] ComRel / disciplinary action reform proposal Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 13:54:30 -0500 Message-ID: Organization: Obsidian-Studios, Inc. User-Agent: KMail/5.3.3 (Linux/4.7.5-gentoo; KDE/5.28.0; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <20170117184927.2b0654eb.mgorny@gentoo.org> References: <20170115195209.70d3a748.mgorny@gentoo.org> <20170117184927.2b0654eb.mgorny@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart3440740.FjB8T73zqZ"; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: 5d9aaa77-ed14-4468-a8c1-efcd8d5e2c1b X-Archives-Hash: db3c5415365939fdb28be2fb771fb061 --nextPart3440740.FjB8T73zqZ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 6:49:27 PM EST Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > > William, if you do not have anything to add to the topic at hand, > please do not reply. Gentoo does not only consist of areas you care > about, and dismissing anything unrelated to them is not helping anyone. This is an area I do care about as it has effected me likely more than anyo= ne.=20 I am not sure anyone has tried to return for some 8+ years. Or the amount o= f=20 attempts I have to return. During every attempt Comrel/Devrel has bee in th= e=20 way. A problem they started years ago by getting involved when they need no= t. Which is why I say rather than reform. Ditch entirely as it has been EXTREM= ELY=20 harmful. Far beyond anything to do with myself personally. =20 > Furthermore, I should point out that the teams performing disciplinary > actions can have strong influence on influx of developers. IRC, Forums > are frequently the areas where the first contact between users > and Gentoo community occurs, and with an unhealthy moderation team it > could be the last. I am quite aware. I have been moderated several times. I have seen the harm= =20 that protecting the community via moderation causes. The damage is far wors= e=20 than what they seek to prevent in the first place. > I'm talking both of the case when moderators abuse their power and ban > users unnecessarily, and of the case when they do not keep the channels > healthy and troublemakers discourage of users. In the end, the only > people that really come to Gentoo are the bullies and the people who > can withstand being bullied. I believe allot of the moderation and issues I have faced were abuse of pow= er=20 and/or completely unnecessary. Most times policies and procedures are not=20 followed. If nothing else, things were escalated that should have been de- escalated. Problems created that spanned much longer than the problem seeki= ng=20 to be addressed. Creating bigger problems and not resolving the issues. I am not sure anyone around Gentoo has been treated as poorly as I have. Ve= ry=20 few would stick around for the punishment I get on the regular. With everyo= ne=20 saying do as I say, not as I do.... Not to mention questioning others social skills from people who clearly lac= k=20 them to begin with. Most of the problem with Comrel/Devrel comes from havin= g=20 the wrong people involved. People that lack people skills, make no effort t= o=20 establish or build personal relationships or anything of real benefit to=20 problem resolution. Which is why problems get escalated and become much big= ger=20 and last for years. Assuming you know someone you do not. =2D-=20 William L. Thomson Jr. --nextPart3440740.FjB8T73zqZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. 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