From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45534138334 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 20:18:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 104DCE0878; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 20:18:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD5D4E0845 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 20:18:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D92F26556; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 16:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 09 Apr 2019 16:18:22 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=GnUv36 HtSflYgtEUnGTqRb9HMNJcEo+sLLvK591AWls=; b=lUVX+PQP0z3vcKzTP5e5na 8l/jY70AFvpo2MVLEr+mdcu05ikhLAPeI95FoO0vts5YOtALOpBUcgTlm0nDsUEk Pu2Z2fj5a/pjbM3iFQa4ekmqSxOvnhmFYg2eE2jvcvWz+m6Cf40zDx2WnN1Rax0f vI1ztTG+cmBk7Iww4/kSY1N4e8l2ALAaTskwCbVqhYVaDd7l0GswdH49Eqa83fS0 XMCTm2qdTcVWzyiYioYcXFn3kfIGGaMlC9pzt0pDIWAFqQL6qbYtL+9plOtdzTG7 osmTpTdIHzAvn9mK4LZ0PexKE9xv0NIfWtEssXAsQfYxEar9Vu04U09GeMmRl4dg == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduuddrudehgddugeekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefuvfhfhffkffggjggtsehgtderof dttdejnecuhfhrohhmpefiohhkthhurhhkucgjuhhkshgvkhcuoehgohhkthhurhhksehg vghnthhoohdrohhrgheqnecukfhppeehgedrfeelrdelkedruddtieenucfrrghrrghmpe hmrghilhhfrhhomhepghhokhhtuhhrkhesghgvnhhtohhordhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgv rhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (106.ip-54-39-98.net [54.39.98.106]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 93768E4122 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 16:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] call for agenda items -- council meeting 2019-04-14 To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <20190401032055.GA9497@linux1.home> <4bbfc34f-335f-5521-310a-b66ffd0d9a9a@gentoo.org> <5e30d658-80c8-b608-1505-dc08db3625bf@gentoo.org> <20190403174315.32615d3b9574571e3ed4a399@gentoo.org> <80ed2e482e96c96555bf4fd9331731c4c9ad0d7f.camel@gentoo.org> From: Gokturk Yuksek Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=gokturk@gentoo.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFY8kMEBEAClkkMsYPgJKv1nYgN/0bWXXnc/0tM1DQj+2QcL+MFN3vPRTUtXysp6x8qx 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Rk/14eon2xiSaPNnMr6dGYRmaYiHmWD9Vapsi+tIA5W6No25j3X7ehlYGpkMTS6LjCJt8xKy h+opvyXxiUODckIGUPaurcG4ZRpHD4/N3T98VVAhU1A7mUP7vWCfsyAfEqihno5m7h2avg7L hQWRcmElkxxkrpXfC9JNWiTSs8ZZGLN1KdLAyfqozKrRGh3o0hpCLH4PH27utk5t5nPcqe9G oR5dTf/pil9/DurzQYGGkvsBtkmYFkj/3iL0Dodz8mtQMxv5NZ0J0lwY8eIMRi4wPXMdwTgE +78/mBdzpxh8Hy47zOvd3JlmOcKf3SNiAp71EgTzZ4dkMjwv2UKIkM3XBOBhZWeqYHBNqt+L nZr0h+nnxTJleBgtuRjPZs8A9H5WjJOXskinN033sQ== Message-ID: Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 20:18:00 +0000 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <80ed2e482e96c96555bf4fd9331731c4c9ad0d7f.camel@gentoo.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lQg2bVgpDRWxcpH9oeQF9wItN4xpGVicg" X-Archives-Salt: ea1fab3a-05b6-479b-81a5-805a202203b4 X-Archives-Hash: 320000b4ce4e3484082782a7c2de3cc8 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --lQg2bVgpDRWxcpH9oeQF9wItN4xpGVicg Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="dVoxtlIt6cxEu5PHrDfhbjtzfycBFbGbf"; protected-headers="v1" From: Gokturk Yuksek To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] call for agenda items -- council meeting 2019-04-14 References: <20190401032055.GA9497@linux1.home> <4bbfc34f-335f-5521-310a-b66ffd0d9a9a@gentoo.org> <5e30d658-80c8-b608-1505-dc08db3625bf@gentoo.org> <20190403174315.32615d3b9574571e3ed4a399@gentoo.org> <80ed2e482e96c96555bf4fd9331731c4c9ad0d7f.camel@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <80ed2e482e96c96555bf4fd9331731c4c9ad0d7f.camel@gentoo.org> --dVoxtlIt6cxEu5PHrDfhbjtzfycBFbGbf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I'd like to voice my opinion on the matter as well. Full disclosure: NP-Hardass is my mentor and I also had a co-maintainer who has been distressed by the enforcement of the GLEP. Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny: > On Wed, 2019-04-03 at 17:43 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: >> Why? We have no way to verify that provided names are valid or that >> provided ID's are valid. At least in my jurisdiction such >> information collected can't be used for legal action or protection >> without following established government-assisted verification >> procedure. In other jurisdictions similar problems may and will >> arise. >=20 > 'Perfect is the enemy of good'. Claiming that you can't be 100% sure > that someone's giving his real name doesn't imply that everyone is usin= g > fake names. Or that it makes no sense to use them. >=20 I understand that but it creates problems with the consistent enforcement of the policy. There are no clear guidelines as to how we decide who requires identity validation and who doesn't. We don't even know who is tasked with making the request and performing the validation. If I work with a user and I am convinced that they provide their real name, is that sufficient for the foundation? Can I arbitrarily be suspicious of any user and demand them to provide their identity? >> Additional problem is personal data collection, it is >> restricted or heavily regulated in many countries. One can't just >> demand to show an ID via electronic means without following >> complicated data protection procedures which are likely to be >> incompatible between jurisdictions. >=20 > Do you have any proof of that, or are you just basing your comments > on the common concept of misunderstanding GDPR and extending it to matc= h > your private interest? >=20 At the very least, insecure transportation and storage of legal documents has a potential to lead to identity theft, which makes it a legal liability in and of itself. I don't think we should be dismissive on this point. >> So the real name requirement gives us no real protection from >> possible cases, but creates real and serious problems by kicking >> active developers and contributors from further contributions. >> NP-Hardass is not the only one.=20 >=20 > Do you have any proof of that? As far as I'm concerned, we're pretty > clear that NP-Hardass can't contribute to Gentoo, and that his previous= > contributions shouldn't have been accepted in the first place (and why > Trustees agreed to them is another problem). Are you going to take > legal and financial responsibility if his employer claims copyright to > his contributions? And if you say yes, are you going to really take it= > or go with the forementioned attitude that we can't legally force you > to? >=20 I do disagree on this point. I believe the Foundation did take appropriate measures to reduce the legal liability when he was recruited. I think it should have been clearly explained how he has become a legal liability to the Foundation before his access was taken away from him. You also bring up a more interesting point here. If I work with a user who has lied to me about their identity, and their employer decided to take it to court, who is liable? Am I at fault for having good faith or is it a neglect on the Foundation's side? >> I invited some gifted people with >> high quality out-of-tree work to become contributors or developers, >> but due to hostile attitude towards anonymous contributors they >> can't join. And people want to stay anonymous for good reasons, >> because they are engaged with privacy oriented development. >=20 > This is a very vague statement that sounds like serious overstatement > with no proof, aimed purely to force emotional reaction to support your= > proposal. If you really want to propose something meaningful, I'd > really appreciate if you used real evidence to support it rather than > vague claims. >=20 >> We are loosing real people, real contributions and real community. >> What for? For solving imaginary problems with inappropriate tools. >> >=20 > Thank you for telling us that copyright is an imaginary problem. >=20 I can't help but agree with the point that we are losing real contributors and real community. And people whom I talked to didn't oppose the Foundation's attempt to reduce legal liability. They were frustrated by the arbitrary enforcement and not having their opinions heard. The fact that people can get away with using a pseudonym as long as it reads like a normal person name (for which there is no definition) is something we have to address to the people who weren't as lucky with their choice of pseudonym and lost their ability to contribute. -- gokturk --dVoxtlIt6cxEu5PHrDfhbjtzfycBFbGbf-- --lQg2bVgpDRWxcpH9oeQF9wItN4xpGVicg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEED14mDxorHtjk0V2IYEuf/bfGVQcFAlys/gQACgkQYEuf/bfG VQeo2Af7BW9PLVw+0XA00law2P3Fw7GYoXuW363dUvW0HTEZfGdf+PCKBhLEF8LT iKJv6hD2sLzKjPtMDLV8MYQnAF9+kwDOyUYiff0NInGvCXJ3Prq4hJCG1/o0HzR/ KS0gQx7syV/wvunBV/wroSoI/SDOrmUbM33Lu8sfI/zqj/hUeX0w2R7uchjyulVk z/tSKRB9JVmRlrXHMCyKGrawqQe+mcNgquVmnVWj55SSrb5xdKht/Ld4Br31SZxN AKu4NxpNqShijgbA2z5Se3tPnSyk4ewQdUX+fbrQsqJdiZHDD4Y6mIsceI5ATvBv h6LI3NPdqzn7fa3gIAReH+iEU0EhdA== =kEEd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lQg2bVgpDRWxcpH9oeQF9wItN4xpGVicg--