From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0163E13933E for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 01:50:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F15DAE08E8; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 01:50:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1DF6E08E8; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 01:50:38 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 21:50:35 -0400 From: Aaron Bauman To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Cc: gentoo-nfp , Gentoo Elections Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-nfp] 2021 Trustees election Message-ID: References: <0b4c895018c93be369b1d534fe393f2f5b6952ea.camel@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="TL/UjHVsTUOlVJma" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Archives-Salt: 8d5cbfb4-1aad-49a7-bb5c-499b7964995a X-Archives-Hash: 03d879ba9b04c416acd63d5208d8471f --TL/UjHVsTUOlVJma Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 06, 2021 at 06:12:42PM -0700, Matt Turner wrote: > On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 3:27 PM Aaron Bauman wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 06, 2021 at 02:57:38PM -0700, Matt Turner wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:32 PM Micha?? G=C3=B3rny = wrote: > In fact you didn't, and that is not the perception I was left with > from our conversation. I suggest that you reread our conversation, > because I don't think you have an accurate memory of it. >=20 > 18:25 <@ mattst88> | I'm also disappointed that some Trustees that > were elected on a platform of merging the Foundation into an > umbrella... don't seem to have done anything towards that goal > 18:25 | mattst88: It is a long process... > 18:25 | mattst88: of course, I think some opinions have cha= nged :) > 18:26 <@ mattst88> | It is, but I see mgorny (not a Trustee) > reaching out to umbrella orgs, not Trustees > 18:26 | mattst88: he requested to do so and it was > approved by the trustees. > 18:26 <@ mattst88> | I think he took the initiative because it > wasn't happening otherwise > 18:26 <@FreedomBear> | Fair enough. > There was much more to the conversation than just this. Please don't pick and choose what you present. > Obviously the financial work Robin has done is valuable and necessary > if we're to merge into an umbrella organization. I was not referring > to him when I wrote the first line in that snippet. > The entire year was focused on righting taxes. This was clearly communicated through several bugs, emails (from the Foundation president), #gentoo-trustees, and -nfp mails. There are some emails which go to trustees@ but these are not public and are communications with the tax people. > At no point in the conversation did you give an HTTP link. You said > basically: it's on the Wiki and Bugzilla. Before today, there were > only two minor edits to > https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=3DFoundation:FoundationFutureState > since September 2020. Is that an accurate picture of the Trustees' > progress? I have no idea. > It is all out there. Go look for it... or ask for a specific link. I did ask what else could be done to smooth communication. If asked, I would have provided a direct link. > There are no non-trivial changes to > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Main_Page this year. The > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Main_Page#Board_Minutes > section ends in 2018 with no explanation as to why. >=20 > The Foundation:Main_Page doesn't even have an accurate "Last elected" > date for the President. >=20 I think this is accurate as he has served consecutive terms. > I'm unsure what you find disagreeable about what I said? > It is the manner in which you do it. You throw stones instead of asking questions or requesting information. If you care enough... ask. I was more than willing to support with my broad offer and request to facilitate better communications as seen on IRC. > On IRC I asked how I could follow what the Trustees do, and you said: >=20 > 18:32 <@ mattst88> | right. I meant, is there evidence of activity? > presumably I can't just add myself to the trustees@ alias, so if I > wanted to follow along I should... watch bugzilla? > 18:33 | mattst88: bugzilla for sure. Wiki has the > account information. >=20 > But I'm not sure if Bugzilla contains everything. Presumably not. For > example, it seems that a Trustee contacted the Linux Foundation in > February and March [1]. I only learned about that because I saw > robbat2 ask alicef in #gentoo-dev to summarize it for the Wiki. Robin > added a bunch of information to that page today, and that's great, but > probably insufficient as a general strategy for keeping Foundation > members informed. >=20 So, you would like a better flow of information. That is fair and should be addressed. > > Yet, here you are publically tossing out false information based on > > your imperfect perception. >=20 > It's probably not a great strategy to scold people for not knowing > what you know, when you're failing to document what you know... >=20 See above. > Anway, I'm not sure what's false about my statement, but this is kind > of my point precisely! >=20 > I don't know what the Trustees do. I don't mean in general; I know you > approve funds, etc. But like, what things have you actually done in > the last $timeframe? >=20 Do you have some specific question? Do you think we should be doing other things than what we are tasked with as a Foundation? Do you have a recommendation? > The Council has monthly meetings with logs and summaries. Trustees > have one annual meeting. Obviously the Trustees do things between > annual meetings. How can anyone stay informed? >=20 This is understandable, they have a need for such things as day-to-day project requirements drive such meeting frequency.=20 Do you think the trustees should meet monthly? We have done this before, but it was not very productive as most tasks, outside of approving funds, are longer term. > Maybe you could just clearly state what you've done towards the goal > of merging the Foundation into an umbrella org? (I thought that at > least at one point you were against that, so I'm not even completely > sure of your position!) Maybe you're all working tirelessly to this > end, but if you are, I'm almost completely unaware of it, and I don't > think that's for lack of attention on my part. >=20 I have not done anything to assist in dissolving the Foundation as a trustee. I don't agree that an umbrella is right for Gentoo. We can discuss this further on another thread on -nfp if you like. I, personally, have stated this across many mediums. The dissolution of the Foundation is what Alec proposed in his trustee manifesto.=20 Aside from this, one critical factor of doing so (as you have noted) is correcting the taxes which has been completed. This too was communicated in official letters to -nfp and "President Updates". -Aaron --TL/UjHVsTUOlVJma Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAABCAAdFiEEmv7M5qd5RX+UB+cwV6vTrTwY1fAFAmDlCGgACgkQV6vTrTwY 1fDlfQgAocikFkFJbYtNG3BwiYNyUhmKVfcQYkGWwZLedSbCJ8SCdjQb3I96V4lp laA0NuVOrCj7rgJ36Cz8M95UwqrVY0JSf6Hr8iBMhaAjH1tJbD+MvNTaSorbKVsq 22sFmlsblPlY9gPrB5kYYDCtcPRMEhg+pnl7km3TXEMcVSIeBQKpS8n4Cy4enfj+ /dDBjWYtyQijYI9gRrpFGdkizTewsTBCCzpFwuc9d7LK1io2kQdR8hYCIaltHwud GlEBwN/bl1O7Pn/n7yP5uo+bJTEYNphJomk1Ak92XNJBK4g601zRRhOl0FrF3u6a eAlckTe/C3uy5R8e1Qq1l/FzmJNqcg== =vE5r -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --TL/UjHVsTUOlVJma--