From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E1341382C5 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 21:09:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 708D4E0A5D; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 21:09:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smarthost01c.mail.zen.net.uk (smarthost01c.mail.zen.net.uk [212.23.1.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BC64E0A5C for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 21:09:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [62.3.120.142] (helo=NeddySeagoon_Static) by smarthost01c.mail.zen.net.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1koC8W-0003bh-IS for gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 21:09:04 +0000 Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2020 21:08:41 +0000 From: Roy Bamford Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Shutting down the Off the Wall To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Cc: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Balsa 2.6.1 Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-e8F8X9d2V7dNbuJeiFLC" X-Originating-smarthost01c-IP: [62.3.120.142] Feedback-ID: 62.3.120.142 X-Archives-Salt: c3ee9350-58b8-4d6e-8036-ddfdca661e93 X-Archives-Hash: aeed8a894965851d8499de394ccdfe02 --=-e8F8X9d2V7dNbuJeiFLC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2020.12.12 19:32, Ulrich Mueller wrote: > >>>>> On Sat, 12 Dec 2020, Roy Bamford wrote: >=20 > > On 2020.12.12 15:15, Ulrich Mueller wrote: > >> >>>>> On Sat, 12 Dec 2020, Roy Bamford wrote: > >> > The original Proctors project was created by the council of the > day > >> > to be a quick reaction short slap response team to CoC > violations. > >> > Then one day, a council member did something to get slapped. > >> > Instead of calming down and reflecting on events, by which time, > the > >> > slap would have worn off, said council member appealed directly > to > >> > council and managed to get the Proctors disbanded. > >>=20 > >> That's very different from my recollection of events. The relevant > >> Council log [1] also tells a different story. >=20 > > I have the 'benefit', that may not be the right word, of being the > on=20 > > the proctors team at the time. =20 >=20 > OK, then let's look into the details. As I recall it, disbanding of > was > triggered by the infamous "Living in a bubble" thread on the > gentoo-dev > mailing list in 2007: >=20 > - beejay posts a bad joke, disparaging Paludis and insulting ciaranm > [2]=20 > - As can be expected, several people react to this > - A Proctor (neddyseagoon) issues a warning [3], about half an hour > after the original posting > - Shortly after that, another Proctor (amne) suspends two peoples' > (ciaranm and geoman) accounts [4] > - At which point a Council member (wolf31o2) complains about the > Proctors' action (in his opinion, banning the wrong people) and > calls > for disbanding of the Proctors [5] > - amne rage-quits [6] > - A discussion follows about the Proctors project, and that they > should > develop some guidelines. Which never happens. >=20 > There's also a summary of this by marienz, from a Proctor's point of > view [7]. >=20 > So please tell me, where in the above chain of event do you see a CoC > violation by a Council member? >=20 > And of course, nothing of this is relevant for the present discussion. > Still, if you make accusations like this: >=20 > >> > That sent the message to the community that the CoC did not apply > >> > to council members. The CoC has never recovered. >=20 > ... then I pretty much think that you should back them by actual > facts. >=20 > Ulrich >=20 > >> [1] https://projects.gentoo.org/council/meeting-logs/20070712.txt > [2] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/6feb6e4bb68ca5e7bffc68= a3db3b9567 > [3] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/c407c20291a64f371979f5= 4ed7b1025c > [4] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/028d7f7cb5dbba891c3278= ca4e51f11f > [5] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/1d81fae0e3fad23f894a09= 2255edfbe6 > [6] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/4378a6d6f0986a6e138423= 1d4ba86b02 > [7] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/6707daa4c9368ba48d6997= ca16162c16 >=20 Ulrich, You are missing that wolf31o2 gets suspended for ignoring the Proctors warning and makes it known that he's not happy.=20 There is a lot of email and IRC traffic, including from the dev-rel lead.=20 I don't recall how much was public but probably not a lot.=20 Most of the Proctors team quits inside the next 12 hours or so, due to demonstrable lack of support from people who should support the=20 CoC and its enforcement but choose not to. =20 The Council subsequently disbands the Proctors. The Proctors were acting to defend the CoC. A warning was issued and ignored. The poster that ignored the warning happened to be a council member. The council was supposed to support the Proctors in the CoC defence not protest the actions and subsequently destroy them. Its not a direct CoC violation, its visibly going against a CoC enforcement= . --=20 Regards, Roy Bamford (Neddyseagoon) a member of elections gentoo-ops forum-mods arm64 --=-e8F8X9d2V7dNbuJeiFLC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAABCAAdFiEEsOrcx0gZrrCMwJzo/xJODTqpeT4FAl/VMVkACgkQ/xJODTqp eT4bnggAmHgXztaQk/PRneekzWALvWDs1tJnmdUqBfnqP6JUHRy7pCoUA9lFLAJT zywUJsVD1P1K89nthW/ZQxhAQjg40PNTNQIgnBiuFaJZKFrIU7FD92+9Sx6b+6BN IGycM2jRekWdR1/PRtJA+A1pI4MtMSPqeG0BejKxoEm9hZ9Nea+UkJ3lCuDvp+MQ Twrt2hvN5sbvfCB402jSZWXDatRJQzOYwnW8lWFcMt6OsWaFLMrzQHIR4OXMrIku FHZ/miI/fmp78bQiVP+/Rg55xqpvPZhvW4A1qKHOUi02CDLBWkRN6FVpG1mEkrb+ Dh+4l/sWPHKkYphxaMor6YhHAnmCbA== =ubgl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-e8F8X9d2V7dNbuJeiFLC--