From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 221C31382C5 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:21:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DBB59E07F1; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:21:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io0-x233.google.com (mail-io0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A46DFE07F0 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:21:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io0-x233.google.com with SMTP id e7so4450986iof.2 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 10:21:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=funtoo-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=wdX7pSRDauOUKAGEUOTj9jSpcRmaB3OcXfQ+cHSfPiY=; b=h8qasJ6Z+zFHicqt5a1QHn/nqwZL03gwFHn4XAejYEDJ3gIiVdsA+BjHXk3l2ycAf8 NRwh36PUrsmG0ElRYhy2MaybYOxTz1+8cIXkDg6Hf0d3lLhbkoIlM6OxbFjg1SFR57s+ EL3Gz1764od22pa6QBMgLJdY3X42BEnv9bd3oCem2BOiooHzoXOqv0XZk++JtC7yD5U0 qTjIcTQ/dJd9/8KwgkSRCrJxCBa2pznCJ1eVbCqkfMMq7qVNEGBOBtzFyrxxUJQ9epC3 xmvWmAr+/6MOzYuvalaIEmBLov1nTfDGc5vjAJ0W6LmRLWR000Dm1VxICDZOM7k0L+L8 U+eQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=wdX7pSRDauOUKAGEUOTj9jSpcRmaB3OcXfQ+cHSfPiY=; b=ooQR7GOJFQY4rfRdOJphnUcUSehZwfUJXCj9CkMnf6zTBUKhQMcUoq778DQCYOL2Sy exUHKtP82kNIma14ulAMiC73E3hMTKla2ALkks+vAux87LlqoCp5b9F64mWZn1J/h1Rj RipXM1tuuicFOcoumr4lLTOYPijZbng3BzzgFRbWf97zt/E6fhxMnwKxgKIMTcl36NRO p3qbIBuoRLtkVE/ljnID9QRTJ4CVxdZkOVPEJBxYOl86RPn796EgDoWO/aQ6Fd8UaB0B q8A/EV68xkaU83EkZBSDU2Xl7g8oWzGRoaxPi1xhWXjCvaw+1BqIQ2tDOzkFWDUb+iKY 2zSA== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7FgiwkVd/PixOszYLiLdauI+9X6/KAu2bHBXTPPTdFPMFT7ARKv tweRV5IogaaB8JqGvklQ5MsFYg05zYBXEkUIQjAhbdQT51w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELtIU7NvCNTgcGdVvSJ0Yk0qhUu9K2kD6zpBnJiFVD358wQ6SMWfFqQ9o4ed8+ag4grghgHrpOcRSbwj6BG1qDM= X-Received: by 10.107.70.18 with SMTP id t18mr33271783ioa.220.1522257676034; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 10:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.78.215 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 10:21:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <23227.52277.538284.813817@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> References: <88d042a2-a68b-ec2b-ee07-a9e7a0fe9223@gentoo.org> <1522138764.2317.11.camel@gentoo.org> <23227.23677.480269.995092@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <23227.52277.538284.813817@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> From: Daniel Robbins Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 11:21:15 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Social Contract clean-up To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0826847409769505687c3cf0" X-Archives-Salt: 5cc98ca8-b274-4c7c-8bd8-5f6d07845e96 X-Archives-Hash: b814f62fc69c40e96d86fb0e9bb84861 --089e0826847409769505687c3cf0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 11:09 AM, Ulrich Mueller wrote: > > > Reality is that there will be no winner if we start fighting against > each other, like trustees trying to override council, or vice versa. I appreciate you saying that, because that is my point. We can casually toss around the idea of forking, having some epic battle for the future of Gentoo, etc, but ultimately if people just respected one another and supported one another in doing their jobs, and cooperated, and were friendly, and apologized when they made an occasional slip into bad behavior, things would be a lot better. My point I am trying to make is: support the trustees, because that is the organizational structure that exists. Work with them. Engage with them. Help them out. They do have power, even if they choose not to exercise it. As I try to encourage friendliness in Gentoo, I want to start at the "top", which is the Trustees. Be nice to them. You have every reason to. They are in fact quite tolerant of many things and it is a thankless job. And for those who choose to be mean to them, realize that they technically have the ability to whoop your butt, but choose not to exercise it. So maybe be thankful for that. And then of course, trustees, be nice to everyone else too. You are examples of the project. That, above, is really why I am making such a fuss about the trustees and their authority. One way to gain respect for someone is to respect their 'position' and their authority if they were to choose to exercise it. So I hope everyone has a new respect and understanding of trustees, and in the future, be nice to them. The bashing of trustees should stop, as it will only make them frustrated and more liable to be grumpy with you. You are all on the same team. And I am speaking as one who has bitterly complained about trustees in the past. I am trying to support the structure that exists and model the behavior I am encouraging in others. -Daniel --089e0826847409769505687c3cf0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On W= ed, Mar 28, 2018 at 11:09 AM, Ulrich Mueller <ulm@gentoo.org> = wrote:

Reality is that there will be no winner if we start fighting against=
each other, like trustees trying to override council, or vice versa.

I appreciate you saying that, because that is my = point. We can casually toss around the idea of forking, having some epic ba= ttle for the future of Gentoo, etc, but ultimately if people just respected= one another and supported one another in doing their jobs, and cooperated,= and were friendly, and apologized when they made an occasional slip into b= ad behavior, things would be a lot better.

My poin= t I am trying to make is: support the trustees, because that is the organiz= ational structure that exists. Work with them. Engage with them. Help them = out. They do have power, even if they choose not to exercise it.
=
As I try to encourage friendliness in Gentoo, I want to star= t at the "top", which is the Trustees. Be nice to them. You have = every reason to. They are in fact quite tolerant of many things and it is a= thankless job. And for those who choose to be mean to them, realize that t= hey technically have the ability to whoop your butt, but choose not to exer= cise it. So maybe be thankful for that.=C2=A0And = then of course, trustees, be nice to everyone else too. You are examples of= the project.

That, above, is really why I = am making such a fuss about the trustees and their authority. One way to ga= in respect for someone is to respect their 'position' and their aut= hority if they were to choose to exercise it. So I hope everyone has a new = respect and understanding of trustees, and in the future, be nice to them. = The bashing of trustees should stop, as it will only make them frustrated a= nd more liable to be grumpy with you. You are all on the same team. And I a= m speaking as one who has bitterly complained about trustees in the past. I= am trying to support the structure that exists and model the behavior I am= encouraging in others.

-Daniel=C2=A0
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