From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFC971382C5 for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2018 19:58:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A66C7E0ED0; Mon, 2 Apr 2018 19:58:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io0-x242.google.com (mail-io0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B318E0EC7 for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2018 19:58:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io0-x242.google.com with SMTP id v13so19215972iob.6 for ; Mon, 02 Apr 2018 12:58:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=funtoo-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=uwQpoL3UGyb0S2YUPjyYQ5cxMw5Ho2/RiSyE/KZrxXg=; b=Hd0oIqMUDbU6MJQEZKnO8xYc+iZAhvGRD3ajs6JrzbKNvA0MqLAJ/u3voVR1w7e7b0 YP5QOZ/PtIOzzDYRMoj9FXfkgHlSbOq7+pFbP3hnQiorH0mjmm6FAWne3t8ohT6PgOQq w+se1Mj6DXcVGSB+qfhxdav1dJah5mp8b21oUOQUD6z94AkaeRSnwj+lIVI+9VCDntg9 Vldub2e/EJY1bWbeOV9v1F9SxxIbKrBRSD0KJX5/BvDidwHbOW8YUUUzw9Qnspq+Jm1F H+2RBr6jKZMVIbsx8z5NpE+W79AmXPnssBt4itCcKg5lHTsRpLDKqFu715gWPhghxfmb r3Eg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=uwQpoL3UGyb0S2YUPjyYQ5cxMw5Ho2/RiSyE/KZrxXg=; b=Dieay9fDw4LLF/be/lCoBK3XXZiawrdJIpMAQ/Cm9N/pE4rKsAJTgBX+VUaXVDDKt0 Y17QZn0EOkoX2WZsskexgHaFkAHODLdNVPZNy1j3xdm6l5VVqqkWikSisSwJPEoLP9hJ hwck7U2OLGC1SkVaILjZA1rItO9eTMtOf130BI9hBCrmSe9YfLwwu5ywfURHrzOGLdFQ FsTu3oHYFTWV56AYsWhxzplBFhlOQ2OPvZo96J5MNvIV/EOAa8YR2gp4oTBe0cIZPsDQ LTfLfwALRTI+pUs4Wu10ahk7KsVhbR0ie90KJVZHXk2r5HmRWCXFCiI4ES+KsGnCq7h/ LZ6g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tAflqR/o2Fq3uuwe1vMajQ05wF3jMr1IMnTwt1W3zLMqlJX4RwA 7H6yISrePbkWO8M0T23ZloDzR4YqkPSW8zZsPQ5BWPiv X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx489UxmQuGIq11lq06teMmuuy3r2s/y36l+MWP7/L2XUrB7rbMb2jxQVfyrECkm552uzxV+71iOfS/77IoUQfZs= X-Received: by 10.107.133.232 with SMTP id p101mr9992521ioi.44.1522699080804; Mon, 02 Apr 2018 12:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.78.215 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Apr 2018 12:57:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <23227.50997.942551.336507@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <11815711.Ukc4K8cNtV@porto> From: Daniel Robbins Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2018 13:57:59 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Social Contract clean-up To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113ac5eccfbeed0568e301c0" X-Archives-Salt: 507e91c7-c0ac-4808-b162-d5a0f3654af0 X-Archives-Hash: 869f23e4d0652e6cc8d661dea44390e8 --001a113ac5eccfbeed0568e301c0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Pawe=C5=82 Hajdan, Jr. wrote: > On 31/03/2018 21:06, Daniel Robbins wrote: > > Otherwise Gentoo development can become very insular, in-grown and > > detached from reality. This actually allows for a situation to exist > > where there is a lot of internal drama, debate and angst between > > developers as there is no clear focus for the project and it becomes > > difficult to assess what to focus on. > > I share this concern 100% . > > > While you may view user representation as a threat to Gentoo > > development efforts, when done right it is actually going to be a > > refreshing change that brings a new calmness and focus to the > > project and also provides a much-needed positive feedback loop. > > My impression of others' reactions isn't much that it's a threat, just > doubting if (as currently proposed) it'd be effective. > > I hope this thread can lead to improvements to Gentoo. I don't think you > can continue to push your initial idea without applying the IMO > reasonable feedback from the community. > > > Assuming no existing devs want to work on areas of user interest, at > > least we will be tracking areas that users would like us to work on, > > and new devs can be recruited who want to work on these areas. > > I don't think anyone would be opposed to that. Did you consider leading > such a project? I am open to counter-proposals and constructive criticism of the proposal, working towards a goal of improving Gentoo. I would potentially be open to leading such a project if no one else is interested in doing it. Best, Daniel --001a113ac5eccfbeed0568e301c0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On M= on, Apr 2, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Pawe=C5=82 Hajdan, Jr. <phajdan.jr@gentoo.= org> wrote:
On 31/03/2018 21:06, Daniel Robbins wrote:
> Otherwise Gentoo development can become very insular, in-grown and
> detached from reality. This actually allows for a situation to exist >=C2=A0 where there is a lot of internal drama, debate and angst between=
> developers as there is no clear focus for the project and it becomes >=C2=A0 difficult to assess what to focus on.

I share this concern 100% .

> While you may view user representation as a threat to Gentoo
> development efforts, when done right it is actually going to be a
> refreshing change that brings a new calmness and focus to the
> project and also provides a much-needed positive feedback loop.

My impression of others' reactions isn't much that it's = a threat, just
doubting if (as currently proposed) it'd be effective.

I hope this thread can lead to improvements to Gentoo. I don't think yo= u
can continue to push your initial idea without applying the IMO
reasonable feedback from the community.

> Assuming no existing devs want to work on areas of user interest, at > least we will be tracking areas that users would like us to work on, > and new devs can be recruited who want to work on these areas.

I don't think anyone would be opposed to that. Did you consider = leading
such a project?

I am open to counter-propos= als and constructive criticism of the proposal, working towards a goal of i= mproving Gentoo.

I would potentially be open to le= ading such a project if no one else is interested in doing it.
Best,

Daniel
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