From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28B69138A1A for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:30:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4EF3AE08F3; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:30:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-la0-f44.google.com (mail-la0-f44.google.com [209.85.215.44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78B88E0831 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:30:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by labgm9 with SMTP id gm9so1137680lab.2 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 05:30:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=lKje0QLs0N5V8IU7sjzOQyhC2XpaQ3UpND3AD0YgQc4=; b=viZ1pujadfjKRfmuvrGIKwq0+qJYSQ1GhuvKiWGp600+JYBgihT2xOR4HbtKyIccsS dWdHVQkfDVAcGt3r/rrVZ+i9hMkxEJJ1Ky5TkjQtzS5ebXqBHi4VNl1jMujVn5OEl+uI 4VHoEYpsuTtHcjeZVTjJs2u23dakAzJDpHv0Qyix2EdIrV+I0uPILRVnLSbHxSXgR8rT /Ov6n3vIoI8sC1N36hM7ILm8LXXjpy+2tGf4dbGFh5R70bnb5X6b+MsvrjLY0S3Fx47L 4cXnM3NuCYxl2K/CA7lFSwFYdbZ1N/qhPa2VugWGMVRH5OApk31c5GFfNpkLg7IosOc5 hB/g== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.198.161 with SMTP id jd1mr33125641lbc.93.1424266204998; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 05:30:04 -0800 (PST) Sender: dastergon@gmail.com Received: by 10.25.19.135 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 05:30:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201502142148.30540.dilfridge@gentoo.org> <20150215070454.12e20dda@pomiot.lan> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:30:04 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: nIXJGB-qY-SSLztQYlUSbQuY5IY Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Infra Kickstarter? From: Pavlos Ratis To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c34b8836f3c1050f5cd168 X-Archives-Salt: b1cd7fcf-4264-482f-a3b4-be2680e697c0 X-Archives-Hash: a6094e1a00e162e6c25d37159937f51c --001a11c34b8836f3c1050f5cd168 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 5:47 AM, Robin H. Johnson wrote: > On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 07:10:53AM -0500, Rich Freeman wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 4:01 AM, Robin H. Johnson > wrote: > > > > > > If I could afford to spend the more than just volunteer time on Infra, > > > yes, I'd love to have few full 40 hour weeks to put into cleaning up > our > > > cfengine and puppet to where it's significantly easier to manage. > > > > The one thing I was trying to avoid doing was giving an impression > > that the infra team isn't busy doing work that helps everybody around > > here. > > > > You summarize the problem well here. You're too busy due to a labor > > shortage to do the sorts of things that would help reduce the labor > > shortage. > Of infra staff, in 2014 antarus left infra, and we gained dastergon > prometheanfire redlizard. bonsaikitten turned us down again, as he's > busy running the gentooexperimental infrastructure. > > > I don't mean to trivialize the problem, either. Gentoo has a lot of > > donated infrastructure, and a decent amount of cash when you're > > talking about replacing hard drives and such. The problem is that we > > really don't have the kind of money it would take to take on even a > > single employee. > I've wondered in the past, about doing a Kickstarter/IndieGogo to pay me > for spending a month or two on Gentoo, based on the model of the very > successful Django kickstarter: > > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andrewgodwin/schema-migrations-for-django > (there have been other open source kickstarters since then, but the > Django one was one of the first that delivered just open source > software). > > If I wanted to do it full-time, for the cost of living (with my wife and > 10 month old daughter) in Vancouver, at a bare minimum, I need it to be > at least $6000CAD/month before taxes. > > Potential major projects for it, in a rough priority order: > - Get rid of cfengine > - Migration of services off some of our oldest servers > - Split-model Puppet (like Wikimedia) > - Projects Hosting (mostly repurposing 'kup', but needs some dev work) > - Split mail & dev.g.o > - eu.dev.g.o box (post-split of mail) > - Official Gentoo cloud images, from releng (because they'd make infra's > life easier too). > - List Archives > - Website revamp > > Stuff that is NOT on the table (and why) > - Git migration > - We're actually just blocked on a specific new sponsor for more than > month now, they bought a nice new box, and they have to fix > something in their network. > > This also needs to have a self-sustaining result, not an expectation > that it will be repeated in future. > > -- > Robin Hugh Johnson > Gentoo Linux: Developer, Infrastructure Lead > E-Mail : robbat2@gentoo.org > GnuPG FP : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85 > > A Kickstarter/IndieGogo fund-raising campaign would be great for these kind of time-consuming efforts. I had asked in trustees' IRC channel about that topic last August and they replied that there isn't any issue on running such campaigns with a specific objective. Although a remote full-time job is ideal and irreplaceable, an alternative solution would be a Sprint like Debian DSA team[1] and KDE[2] did in the past. More specifically, KDE ran successfully fund-raiser campaigns for Randa Meetings in 2012[3] and 2014[4]. In addition, instead of increasing expenses for booking a place to organize the Sprint, a company could provide a room to hold the sprint, like SUSE did to KDE Plasma developers[5]. Of course the alternative option needs more planning since the infra team is distributed around the world and most of the members have already a full-time jobs and obligations. However, since a Sprint was discussed in the Gentoo Dinner in FOSDEM I wanted to mention it as an alternative solution for potential organization in the future. [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/06/msg00164.html [2] https://sprints.kde.org/sprint/all [3] https://pledgie.com/campaigns/18045 [4] https://www.kde.org/fundraisers/randameetings2014/ [5] https://news.opensuse.org/2010/02/11/meet-the-kde-plasma-developers-at-suse-feb-22/ Best regards, Pavlos Ratis --001a11c34b8836f3c1050f5cd168 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 5:47 AM, Robin H. Johnson <= ;robbat2@gentoo.org= > wrote:
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 07:10:53AM -0500, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 4:01 AM, Robin H. Johnson <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote: > >
> > If I could afford to spend the more than just volunteer time on I= nfra,
> > yes, I'd love to have few full 40 hour weeks to put into clea= ning up our
> > cfengine and puppet to where it's significantly easier to man= age.
>
> The one thing I was trying to avoid doing was giving an impression
> that the infra team isn't busy doing work that helps everybody aro= und
> here.
>
> You summarize the problem well here.=C2=A0 You're too busy due to = a labor
> shortage to do the sorts of things that would help reduce the labor > shortage.
Of infra staff, in 2014 antarus left infra, and we gained dastergon
prometheanfire redlizard. bonsaikitten turned us down again, as he's busy running the gentooexperimental infrastructure.

> I don't mean to trivialize the problem, either.=C2=A0 Gentoo has a= lot of
> donated infrastructure, and a decent amount of cash when you're > talking about replacing hard drives and such.=C2=A0 The problem is tha= t we
> really don't have the kind of money it would take to take on even = a
> single employee.
I've wondered in the past, about doing a Kickstarter/IndieGogo to pay m= e
for spending a month or two on Gentoo, based on the model of the very
successful Django kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andr= ewgodwin/schema-migrations-for-django
(there have been other open source kickstarters since then, but the
Django one was one of the first that delivered just open source
software).

If I wanted to do it full-time, for the cost of living (with my wife and 10 month old daughter) in Vancouver, at a bare minimum, I need it to be
at least $6000CAD/month before taxes.

Potential major projects for it, in a rough priority order:
- Get rid of cfengine
- Migration of services off some of our oldest servers
- Split-model Puppet (like Wikimedia)
- Projects Hosting (mostly repurposing 'kup', but needs some dev wo= rk)
- Split mail & dev.g.o
- eu.dev.g.o box (post-split of mail)
- Official Gentoo cloud images, from releng (because they'd make infra&= #39;s
=C2=A0 life easier too).
- List Archives
- Website revamp

Stuff that is NOT on the table (and why)
- Git migration
=C2=A0 - We're actually just blocked on a specific new sponsor for more= than
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 month now, they bought a nice new box, and they= have to fix
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 something in their network.

This also needs to have a self-sustaining result, not an expectation
that it will be repeated in future.

--
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Developer, Infrastructure Lead
E-Mail=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP=C2=A0 =C2=A0: 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85


A Kic= kstarter/IndieGogo fund-raising campaign would be great for these kind of t= ime-consuming efforts.
I had asked in t= rustees' IRC channel about that topic last August and they replied that= there isn't any issue on running such campaigns with a specific object= ive.

Although a remote full-time job is ideal and irreplaceable, an alternati= ve solution would be a Sprint like Debian DSA team[1] and KDE[2] did in the= past.
More specifically, KDE ran succe= ssfully fund-raiser campaigns for Randa Meetings in 2012[3] and 2014[4].
In addition, instead of increasing expens= es for booking a place to organize the Sprint, a company could provide a ro= om to hold the sprint, like SUSE did to KDE Plasma developers[5].

Of course the alternative option needs more = planning since the infra team is distributed around the world and most of t= he members have already a full-time jobs and obligations.
However, sinc= e a Sprint was discussed in the Gentoo Dinner in FOSDEM I wanted to mention= it as an alternative solution for potential organization in the future.

[1] = https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/06/msg00164.h= tml
[2] https://sprints.kde.org/sprint/all
[3] https://pledgie.com/campaigns/180= 45
[4] https://www.kde.org/fundraisers/randameetings2014/<= br>[5] https://news.opensuse.org/201= 0/02/11/meet-the-kde-plasma-developers-at-suse-feb-22/


Best regards,
Pavlos Ratis

--001a11c34b8836f3c1050f5cd168--