From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620171387FD for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 00:24:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 146FCE0AAF; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 00:24:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-f180.google.com (mail-wi0-f180.google.com [209.85.212.180]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3417EE0AAE for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 00:24:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f180.google.com with SMTP id q5so2484132wiv.13 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 17:24:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=mCEN3HA+Sdel0PzT5mT577xiqOVxud0FT6SGA8/TbBc=; b=c2uKuDDgEF1HepRi7/f+rHLQHUI8kqD0eJ1gJ6TN7SxzOC2gNZ+wMYIaxeTcriKfqU +zPjbgzDY26lRF26o+q+1zBuXfUzugeSpEZvYRCQH08ZOFFHNyqymzS1fXrRU0f9+EoD /Av27zad8Y6/IUKIURA3exdNpvoaus1XqsY2UaAEzUjZrAQ9Cw1YZpBOMLSlroRLINzQ pdRcA1BpBW7CQ3t+isvXW8A3dFvnmkxLXaDqH/qWZD9L440HNg8MaITmDOXISSYyg2xK vZsiGz0nou1N9RkmLJyo/yvkLLtJ4HV4Wpbra9qhUn8zJStutT5nHuxFjdiEMdDwQVMW 1cKw== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.97.72 with SMTP id dy8mr8102129wib.5.1396225445846; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 17:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.217.80.72 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 17:24:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53342A5F.70903@gentoo.org> <20140330103342.76108bfb@pomiot.lan> <20140330163513.3e4cab1a@googlemail.com> <20140330173143.7b541b00@googlemail.com> <5338AC74.2070005@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:24:05 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2014-04-08 From: Douglas Dunn To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04430670b9e55504f5dc1181 X-Archives-Salt: dd7b1a1b-03de-4e46-abab-303b039392f7 X-Archives-Hash: 089039bf819d7544b943f48104dbc20c --f46d04430670b9e55504f5dc1181 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Douglas Dunn wrote: > > > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 7:54 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > >> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 7:44 PM, Douglas James Dunn >> wrote: >> > The system you are most familiar with really depends on what Operating >> > System you use. if you don't use computers you probably were exposed to >> > either the SI units or imperial base 10 units. >> >> SI units ARE in base 10. Most imperial units aren't in base 10, and >> the SI prefixes aren't generally used with imperial units. You don't >> usually report height in centiyards, etc. >> >> There seems to be some kind of misconception that this has something >> to do with imperial vs metric units. >> >> Bits and bytes are such a modern concept that they were pseudo-metric >> from the start, but programmers tended to use the SI prefixes in >> non-SI ways - defining a kilobyte as 1024 bytes. "Kilo" is an SI >> prefix, but the SI defines it as 1000, not 1024. >> >> The 1024-byte kilobyte was never metric or SI or imperial. Fairly >> recently JEDEC codified the 1024-byte kilobyte, but also endorsed the >> 1024-byte kibibyte, and the usage obviously predates that standard. >> Before then, programmers never really had a "standard" for the >> kilobyte. Since programmers don't tend to do a lot of compound units, >> getting their terms endorsed by a standards body was probably not much >> of a priority. If they had gone to the SI/ISO (or whatever was around >> in the 60s) they'd almost certainly have been shot down on having a >> 1024-byte kilobyte. >> >> Rich >> >> > I called it imperial base 10, in the fact that you count 1-9 before > hitting 10 then 10-19 before hitting 20, rather than base 2, or whatever > base you apply, not the fact that the units themselves are, and i realize > that SI are in base 10 also. > the real issue though seems to be asking if we want the default to be in base 2 aka IEC, or base 10 aka SI, it seems that almost everywhere the JDEC binary units are being phased out in favor of IEC to avoid confusion with the SI. I believe that the NIST, the national institute and standards and technology, in the usa, require the IEC units and not the JDEC for binary byte multiples since about 2008 now whether you want to use base 2 or base 10, it probably comes down to what you are doing, how you are doing it, and in some cases, HEX might be even better or easier to work with. in the spirit of gentoo, i foresee some eselect setting switching between binary and decimal systems? --f46d04430670b9e55504f5dc1181 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Douglas Dunn <= ;djdunn.safety@gmail.com> wrote:



On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 7:= 54 PM, Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:<= br>
On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 7:44 PM, Dougla= s James Dunn
<djdunn.safety@gmail.com> wrote:
> The system you are most familiar with really depends on what Operating=
> System you use. =C2=A0if you don't use computers you probably were= exposed to
> either the SI units or imperial base 10 units.

SI units ARE in base 10. =C2=A0Most imperial units aren't in base= 10, and
the SI prefixes aren't generally used with imperial units. =C2=A0You do= n't
usually report height in centiyards, etc.

There seems to be some kind of misconception that this has something
to do with imperial vs metric units.

Bits and bytes are such a modern concept that they were pseudo-metric
from the start, but programmers tended to use the SI prefixes in
non-SI ways - defining a kilobyte as 1024 bytes. =C2=A0"Kilo" is = an SI
prefix, but the SI defines it as 1000, not 1024.

The 1024-byte kilobyte was never metric or SI or imperial. =C2=A0Fairly
recently JEDEC codified the 1024-byte kilobyte, but also endorsed the
1024-byte kibibyte, and the usage obviously predates that standard.
Before then, programmers never really had a "standard" for the kilobyte. =C2=A0Since programmers don't tend to do a lot of compound un= its,
getting their terms endorsed by a standards body was probably not much
of a priority. =C2=A0If they had gone to the SI/ISO (or whatever was around=
in the 60s) they'd almost certainly have been shot down on having a
1024-byte kilobyte.

Rich


I called it imperial base 10, in the fact that you count 1-9 before = hitting 10 then 10-19 before hitting 20, rather than base 2, or whatever ba= se you apply, not the fact that the units themselves are, and i realize tha= t SI are in base 10 also.

the real issue thou= gh seems to be asking if we want the default to be in base 2 aka IEC, or ba= se 10 aka SI, it seems that almost everywhere the JDEC binary units are bei= ng phased out in favor of IEC to avoid confusion with the SI. =C2=A0I belie= ve that the NIST, the national institute and standards and technology, in t= he usa, require the IEC units and not the JDEC for binary byte multiples si= nce about 2008

now whether you want to use base 2 or base 10, it probably comes down to wh= at you are doing, how you are doing it, and in some cases, HEX might be eve= n better or easier to work with. in the spirit of gentoo, i foresee some es= elect setting switching between binary and decimal systems?
--f46d04430670b9e55504f5dc1181--