* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-01 19:25 ` [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14 Justin Lecher (jlec)
@ 2016-02-02 8:06 ` Dirkjan Ochtman
2016-02-02 14:18 ` Justin Lecher (jlec)
2016-02-02 15:25 ` Michał Górny
2016-02-04 10:07 ` [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] " Anthony G. Basile
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 2 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Dirkjan Ochtman @ 2016-02-02 8:06 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project; +Cc: Gentoo Development, Gentoo Council
On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) <jlec@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
> or vote on.
Since we were unable to reach consensus so far, I would like to submit
the issue of picking a new XML validation language to the Council.
Pretty much all the relevant information is in this thread:
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/a1825d5b2a2a16e9e027f6e8dc6d1fd8
If RELAX NG were chosen, I volunteer to convert all the DTDs that are
still relevant. (Hopefully someone else will step forward if XML
Schema is chosen, instead.)
Cheers,
Dirkjan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-02 8:06 ` Dirkjan Ochtman
@ 2016-02-02 14:18 ` Justin Lecher (jlec)
2016-02-03 20:46 ` Dirkjan Ochtman
2016-02-02 15:25 ` Michał Górny
1 sibling, 1 reply; 47+ messages in thread
From: Justin Lecher (jlec) @ 2016-02-02 14:18 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project; +Cc: Gentoo Development, Gentoo Council
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On 02/02/16 09:06, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) <jlec@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
>> or vote on.
>
> Since we were unable to reach consensus so far, I would like to submit
> the issue of picking a new XML validation language to the Council.
>
> Pretty much all the relevant information is in this thread:
> https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/a1825d5b2a2a16e9e027f6e8dc6d1fd8
>
> If RELAX NG were chosen, I volunteer to convert all the DTDs that are
> still relevant. (Hopefully someone else will step forward if XML
> Schema is chosen, instead.)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dirkjan
>
Thanks Dirkjan,
Could you please sum up the thread and come up with some precise
question we should discuss or vote on.
Thanks,
Justin
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-02 14:18 ` Justin Lecher (jlec)
@ 2016-02-03 20:46 ` Dirkjan Ochtman
2016-02-04 8:51 ` Justin Lecher (jlec)
0 siblings, 1 reply; 47+ messages in thread
From: Dirkjan Ochtman @ 2016-02-03 20:46 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project; +Cc: Gentoo Council, Gentoo Development
On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) <jlec@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Could you please sum up the thread and come up with some precise
> question we should discuss or vote on.
The question is: what language should we use for XML validation in the future?
There are two main contenders: RELAX NG (with a compact and an XML
serialization) and XML Schema. Of course conversion between these
schema formats is possible, but the question is what the canonical
language should be and what other formats would be provided (and how).
Summary:
- I contended that RELAX NG compact serialization is more readable,
and that DTD and RELAX NG validation are equally fast. I don't have
much experience with XML Schema, but I do have a conversion tool for
RNC (compact RELAX NG) -> RNG (RELAX NG XML syntax).
- Michał has used both RELAX NG and XML Schema, and prefers the
latter. It's more popular, and it seems that cross-referencing things
is not supported (trivially) in RELAX NG, whereas it should be in XML
Schema.
- Robin prefers XML Schema, but can live with both.
- trang seems to be a pretty decent tool for schema conversion, but it
doesn't handle XML Schema as an input language (likely because of the
complexity of XML Schema).
- There is a standard for referring to RELAX NG or XML Schema schemas
from XML documents, which would be useful for tool authors.
- emacs nXML mode works only with RNC schema, which is a reason for
Ulrich to prefer it.
- Brian seems to like RNC for readability/flexibility reasons.
I hope other will jump in if they feel I missed
something/misrepresented their opinions.
Cheers,
Dirkjan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-03 20:46 ` Dirkjan Ochtman
@ 2016-02-04 8:51 ` Justin Lecher (jlec)
0 siblings, 0 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Justin Lecher (jlec) @ 2016-02-04 8:51 UTC (permalink / raw
To: djc, gentoo-project; +Cc: Gentoo Council, Gentoo Development
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1833 bytes --]
On 03/02/16 21:46, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) <jlec@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Could you please sum up the thread and come up with some precise
>> question we should discuss or vote on.
>
> The question is: what language should we use for XML validation in the future?
>
> There are two main contenders: RELAX NG (with a compact and an XML
> serialization) and XML Schema. Of course conversion between these
> schema formats is possible, but the question is what the canonical
> language should be and what other formats would be provided (and how).
>
> Summary:
>
> - I contended that RELAX NG compact serialization is more readable,
> and that DTD and RELAX NG validation are equally fast. I don't have
> much experience with XML Schema, but I do have a conversion tool for
> RNC (compact RELAX NG) -> RNG (RELAX NG XML syntax).
> - Michał has used both RELAX NG and XML Schema, and prefers the
> latter. It's more popular, and it seems that cross-referencing things
> is not supported (trivially) in RELAX NG, whereas it should be in XML
> Schema.
> - Robin prefers XML Schema, but can live with both.
> - trang seems to be a pretty decent tool for schema conversion, but it
> doesn't handle XML Schema as an input language (likely because of the
> complexity of XML Schema).
> - There is a standard for referring to RELAX NG or XML Schema schemas
> from XML documents, which would be useful for tool authors.
> - emacs nXML mode works only with RNC schema, which is a reason for
> Ulrich to prefer it.
> - Brian seems to like RNC for readability/flexibility reasons.
>
> I hope other will jump in if they feel I missed
> something/misrepresented their opinions.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dirkjan
>
Thanks Dirkjan for the summary.
Justin
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-02 8:06 ` Dirkjan Ochtman
2016-02-02 14:18 ` Justin Lecher (jlec)
@ 2016-02-02 15:25 ` Michał Górny
2016-02-02 20:55 ` Robin H. Johnson
1 sibling, 1 reply; 47+ messages in thread
From: Michał Górny @ 2016-02-02 15:25 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project, Dirkjan Ochtman; +Cc: Gentoo Development, Gentoo Council
Dnia 2 lutego 2016 09:06:30 CET, Dirkjan Ochtman <djc@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
>On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) <jlec@gentoo.org>
>wrote:
>> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to
>discuss
>> or vote on.
>
>Since we were unable to reach consensus so far, I would like to submit
>the issue of picking a new XML validation language to the Council.
>
>Pretty much all the relevant information is in this thread:
>https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/a1825d5b2a2a16e9e027f6e8dc6d1fd8
>
>If RELAX NG were chosen, I volunteer to convert all the DTDs that are
>still relevant. (Hopefully someone else will step forward if XML
>Schema is chosen, instead.)
I think I was the only person wanting XML Schema. Feel free to go with RELAX NG since that seems to work for more current uses.
Just please keep only one format in the repository, and do conversion infra-side. Preferably let's create a new repo for that, and aim at replacing all DTDs (that are still used) with it.
One more question though: is it possible to express key references in RELAX NG? I'm thinking of projects.xml where <subproject ref=''/> should match some other <project><email/></project>.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Dirkjan
--
Best regards,
Michał Górny (by phone)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-02 15:25 ` Michał Górny
@ 2016-02-02 20:55 ` Robin H. Johnson
2016-02-02 21:11 ` Ulrich Mueller
0 siblings, 1 reply; 47+ messages in thread
From: Robin H. Johnson @ 2016-02-02 20:55 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project; +Cc: Gentoo Council
On Tue, Feb 02, 2016 at 04:25:15PM +0100, Michał Górny wrote:
> I think I was the only person wanting XML Schema. Feel free to go with
> RELAX NG since that seems to work for more current uses.
I'd vote for XML-Schema as well, but if there are good transforms
available, i'll live with RNG.
--
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Developer, Infrastructure Lead, Foundation Trustee
E-Mail : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-02 20:55 ` Robin H. Johnson
@ 2016-02-02 21:11 ` Ulrich Mueller
2016-02-02 22:40 ` Robin H. Johnson
0 siblings, 1 reply; 47+ messages in thread
From: Ulrich Mueller @ 2016-02-02 21:11 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Robin H. Johnson; +Cc: gentoo-project, Gentoo Council
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 681 bytes --]
>>>>> On Tue, 2 Feb 2016, Robin H Johnson wrote:
> I'd vote for XML-Schema as well, but if there are good transforms
> available, i'll live with RNG.
Conversion from RNG/RNC to XML-Schema can be done with app-text/trang,
for example. The question (which I had asked in -dev a few days ago)
is if there is a conversion tool for the opposite direction:
>>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
> Emacs nXML mode supports only RNC. Do we have a tool (i.e. a package
> in the tree) for automatic conversion from XML Schema to RNC?
Since nobody has replied to this, I suppose that we have no such tool?
That would be a strong argument for RNG as the source format.
Ulrich
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-02 21:11 ` Ulrich Mueller
@ 2016-02-02 22:40 ` Robin H. Johnson
2016-02-03 0:53 ` Ulrich Mueller
0 siblings, 1 reply; 47+ messages in thread
From: Robin H. Johnson @ 2016-02-02 22:40 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project; +Cc: Gentoo Council
Several of these questions were already answered in the #gentoo-infra
chat that predated the mailing list discussion; I repeat the details
here because it dispels the other concerns.
On Tue, Feb 02, 2016 at 10:11:40PM +0100, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
> > I'd vote for XML-Schema as well, but if there are good transforms
> > available, i'll live with RNG.
> Conversion from RNG/RNC to XML-Schema can be done with app-text/trang,
> for example. The question (which I had asked in -dev a few days ago)
> is if there is a conversion tool for the opposite direction:
Is Trang still actively maintained by upstream? Last release looks like
2009? It also cannot convert FROM XML-Schema, only TO XML-Schema.
There is also MSV, dev-java/msv, with a last release in 2013.
> >>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
> > Emacs nXML mode supports only RNC. Do we have a tool (i.e. a package
> > in the tree) for automatic conversion from XML Schema to RNC?
> Since nobody has replied to this, I suppose that we have no such tool?
> That would be a strong argument for RNG as the source format.
All you need is xsltproc, which is part of libxslt/libxml.
XSL transform: XSD -> RNG
https://github.com/epiasini/xsdtorng
XSL Transform: XSD -> DTD
http://bsp.mits.ch/code/xslt/zxsd2dtd
http://crism.maden.org/consulting/pub/xsl/xsd2dtd.xsl
These two are very similar, differing only in a comment block warning
that some RNG/XML-Schema constraints cannot be represented in DTD.
Both Trang and MSV are also Java, whereas the XSLT transforms are usable
without Java.
--
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Developer, Infrastructure Lead, Foundation Trustee
E-Mail : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-02 22:40 ` Robin H. Johnson
@ 2016-02-03 0:53 ` Ulrich Mueller
0 siblings, 0 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Ulrich Mueller @ 2016-02-03 0:53 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Robin H. Johnson; +Cc: gentoo-project, Gentoo Council
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1635 bytes --]
>>>>> On Tue, 2 Feb 2016, Robin H Johnson wrote:
> Is Trang still actively maintained by upstream? Last release looks
> like 2009?
No idea. It seems to work just fine, though.
> It also cannot convert FROM XML-Schema, only TO XML-Schema.
> There is also MSV, dev-java/msv, with a last release in 2013.
Hm, how does one use MSV for conversion? There's little documentation
included with the package.
>> >>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
>> > Do we have a tool (i.e. a package in the tree) for automatic
>> > conversion from XML Schema to RNC?
>> Since nobody has replied to this, I suppose that we have no such
>> tool? That would be a strong argument for RNG as the source format.
> All you need is xsltproc, which is part of libxslt/libxml.
> XSL transform: XSD -> RNG
> https://github.com/epiasini/xsdtorng
> XSL Transform: XSD -> DTD
> http://bsp.mits.ch/code/xslt/zxsd2dtd
> http://crism.maden.org/consulting/pub/xsl/xsd2dtd.xsl
> These two are very similar, differing only in a comment block
> warning that some RNG/XML-Schema constraints cannot be represented
> in DTD.
It would be nicer if these were released under a free software
license. I don't think that http://bsp.mits.ch/download/lizenz
qualifies (as it allows only private use and distribution at no
charge). Sorry to be pedantic.
> Both Trang and MSV are also Java, whereas the XSLT transforms are
> usable without Java.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my general impression is that
the situation with respect to converters leaves much to be desired.
At least, if we require a tool that is both well maintained and free
software.
Ulrich
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-01 19:25 ` [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14 Justin Lecher (jlec)
2016-02-02 8:06 ` Dirkjan Ochtman
@ 2016-02-04 10:07 ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-05 7:49 ` Daniel Campbell
` (2 more replies)
2016-02-07 11:15 ` [gentoo-project] " Andrew Savchenko
2016-02-12 22:22 ` Michał Górny
3 siblings, 3 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Anthony G. Basile @ 2016-02-04 10:07 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project; +Cc: Gentoo Council
On 2/1/16 2:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, February 14 at 19:00 UTC
> in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
>
> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
> or vote on.
>
> Justin
>
Hi everyone,
Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that he's not
coming back to Gentoo. Of course, we all have these moments when we
feel frustrated and have to get away from the madhouse, but if hasufell
is serious, we need to do something with his packages. He maintains a
bunch of important packages and leads an important project (libressl).
I've taken on libressl and mbedtls as a second maintainer, but we should
think about the other packages.
If he's reading this, I would really like him back since he's a talented
contributor, but score low on charisma and I'm not sure I can persuade him.
--
Anthony G. Basile, Ph. D.
Chair of Information Technology
D'Youville College
Buffalo, NY 14201
(716) 829-8197
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread* Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-04 10:07 ` [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] " Anthony G. Basile
@ 2016-02-05 7:49 ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-05 8:01 ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-05 19:24 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2016-02-09 1:23 ` Ian Delaney
2 siblings, 1 reply; 47+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Campbell @ 2016-02-05 7:49 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
On 02/04/2016 02:07 AM, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
> On 2/1/16 2:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, February 14 at
>> 19:00 UTC in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
>>
>> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to
>> discuss or vote on.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that he's
> not coming back to Gentoo. Of course, we all have these moments
> when we feel frustrated and have to get away from the madhouse, but
> if hasufell is serious, we need to do something with his packages.
> He maintains a bunch of important packages and leads an important
> project (libressl). I've taken on libressl and mbedtls as a second
> maintainer, but we should think about the other packages.
>
> If he's reading this, I would really like him back since he's a
> talented contributor, but score low on charisma and I'm not sure I
> can persuade him.
>
If there's a way to get a list of the packages he maintained, I'm
willing to look through it and pick up anything I use or am familiar with.
I, too, am no good with charisma and persuasion. We're all volunteers,
so if hasufell isn't getting any satisfaction from Gentoo anymore,
what can we really do? I have a feeling there's a lot more to this
than what lies on the surface, but I doubt anyone should air any
specifics unless hasufell or others are completely okay with it.
Whatever his reasons, if hasufell leaves I hope he can find something
he enjoys. His work in games and discussions on gentoo-dev are part of
what urged me to become a developer. I use his Portage config to use
gentoo.git as my portage tree, too.
- --
Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer
OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C 1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-05 7:49 ` Daniel Campbell
@ 2016-02-05 8:01 ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-05 11:49 ` Anthony G. Basile
0 siblings, 1 reply; 47+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Campbell @ 2016-02-05 8:01 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
On 02/04/2016 11:49 PM, Daniel Campbell wrote:
> On 02/04/2016 02:07 AM, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
>> On 2/1/16 2:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, February 14 at
>>> 19:00 UTC in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
>>>
>>> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us
>>> to discuss or vote on.
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>
>> Hi everyone,
>
>> Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that
>> he's not coming back to Gentoo. Of course, we all have these
>> moments when we feel frustrated and have to get away from the
>> madhouse, but if hasufell is serious, we need to do something
>> with his packages. He maintains a bunch of important packages and
>> leads an important project (libressl). I've taken on libressl and
>> mbedtls as a second maintainer, but we should think about the
>> other packages.
>
>> If he's reading this, I would really like him back since he's a
>> talented contributor, but score low on charisma and I'm not sure
>> I can persuade him.
>
>
> If there's a way to get a list of the packages he maintained, I'm
> willing to look through it and pick up anything I use or am
> familiar with.
>
> I, too, am no good with charisma and persuasion. We're all
> volunteers, so if hasufell isn't getting any satisfaction from
> Gentoo anymore, what can we really do? I have a feeling there's a
> lot more to this than what lies on the surface, but I doubt anyone
> should air any specifics unless hasufell or others are completely
> okay with it.
>
> Whatever his reasons, if hasufell leaves I hope he can find
> something he enjoys. His work in games and discussions on
> gentoo-dev are part of what urged me to become a developer. I use
> his Portage config to use gentoo.git as my portage tree, too.
>
>
Nevermind; with a little grep and find magic and a sprinkle of vim, here:
app-admin/mcelog
app-admin/verynice
app-arch/innoextract
app-crypt/zuluCrypt
app-eselect/eselect-renpy
app-misc/c_rehash
dev-cpp/luabind
dev-db/mariadb
dev-db/mariadb-galera
dev-db/mysql
dev-db/mysql-cluster
dev-db/percona-server
dev-lang/elixir
dev-libs/angelscript
dev-libs/libntru
dev-libs/libressl
dev-libs/libuv
dev-lua/luvit
dev-python/pathtools
dev-python/pygame_sdl2
dev-python/python-application
dev-python/python-cjson
dev-python/python-eventlib
dev-python/python-gnutls
dev-python/python-msrplib
dev-python/python-sipsimple
dev-python/python-xcaplib
dev-python/pyuv
dev-python/watchdog
dev-util/ninja-ide
dev-util/xxdi
dev-vcs/git-imerge
games-arcade/mari0
games-engines/openmw
games-engines/renpy
games-roguelike/stone-soup
games-rpg/a-bird-story
games-rpg/arx-fatalis-data
games-rpg/arx-fatalis-demo
games-rpg/arx-libertatis
games-rpg/avadon
games-rpg/wasteland2
games-strategy/0ad
games-strategy/0ad-data
games-strategy/openra
gnustep-apps/sogo
gnustep-libs/sope
media-gfx/blender
media-gfx/pornview
media-sound/pnmixer
media-video/ffdiaporama
net-dns/dnscrypt-proxy
net-firewall/pglinux
net-im/bitlbee-steam
net-im/purple-events
net-irc/hexchat
net-libs/mbedtls
net-misc/connman-gtk
net-misc/connman-ui
net-misc/youtube-viewer
net-p2p/pybitmessage
net-voip/blink
sci-geosciences/cdat-lite
sci-geosciences/congen
sci-geosciences/tcd-utils
sci-libs/libspatialindex
www-apps/hiawatha-monitor
www-servers/hiawatha
x11-misc/gpaste
x11-misc/sunflower
x11-plugins/hexchat-javascript
x11-plugins/pidgin-birthday-reminder
x11-plugins/pidgin-opensteamworks
x11-plugins/purple-libnotify-plus
x11-terms/terra
x11-themes/geany-themes
x11-wm/i3
xfce-extra/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin
- ---
Out of the above list, I'd be willing to take over x11-wm/i3.
- --
Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer
OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C 1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-05 8:01 ` Daniel Campbell
@ 2016-02-05 11:49 ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-05 12:01 ` Alexander Berntsen
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Anthony G. Basile @ 2016-02-05 11:49 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
On 2/5/16 3:01 AM, Daniel Campbell wrote:
> ---
>
> Out of the above list, I'd be willing to take over x11-wm/i3.
>
I have an idea that I'll pass by the council on the 14th. Basically,
1) we officially contact hasufell as the council
2) wait a week
3a) if he says he is coming back, then do nothing
3b) if he says he might come back or doesn't answer then maintainers can
adopt a package at will, making themselves first maintainer and hasufell
second. packages that are not adopted after some time can be moved to
maintainer needed
3c) if he says he won't come back ever, period, full stop, then, as sad
as it is, its open season
I don't know how much community discussion this needs, but that's what
I'm going to propose. As may be noted a few packages there are
important and we don't want them left unmaintained while at the same
time leaving the door open. Currently I'm baby sitting libressl and
mbedtls.
--
Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D.
Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened]
E-Mail : blueness@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA
GnuPG ID : F52D4BBA
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread* Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-05 11:49 ` Anthony G. Basile
@ 2016-02-05 12:01 ` Alexander Berntsen
2016-02-05 12:13 ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-05 19:00 ` Daniel Campbell (zlg)
2 siblings, 0 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Alexander Berntsen @ 2016-02-05 12:01 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Julian still maintains everything in his own overlays AFAIR, so that
should make things somewhat easier for new maintainers.
- --
Alexander
bernalex@gentoo.org
https://secure.plaimi.net/~alexander
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-05 11:49 ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-05 12:01 ` Alexander Berntsen
@ 2016-02-05 12:13 ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-05 12:22 ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-05 19:00 ` Daniel Campbell (zlg)
2 siblings, 1 reply; 47+ messages in thread
From: Rich Freeman @ 2016-02-05 12:13 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Anthony G. Basile <blueness@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 3a) if he says he is coming back, then do nothing
> 3b) if he says he might come back or doesn't answer then maintainers can
> adopt a package at will, making themselves first maintainer and hasufell
> second. packages that are not adopted after some time can be moved to
> maintainer needed
> 3c) if he says he won't come back ever, period, full stop, then, as sad
> as it is, its open season
We can talk about a council email, but in general anybody can
co-maintain anything in Gentoo without anybody's blessing. I don't
think we need to treat this situation any differently than any other.
I think the only real question as far as maintainership goes is
whether he is gone for good or not, in which case existing packages to
go maintainer-needed.
If somebody wants to start co-maintaining some of those packages today
they don't need to wait for a council blessing. They should just add
themselves to the metadata. That doesn't preclude hasufell from
continuing to co-maintain when he returns.
--
Rich
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-05 12:13 ` Rich Freeman
@ 2016-02-05 12:22 ` Anthony G. Basile
0 siblings, 0 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Anthony G. Basile @ 2016-02-05 12:22 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
On 2/5/16 7:13 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Anthony G. Basile <blueness@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> 3a) if he says he is coming back, then do nothing
>> 3b) if he says he might come back or doesn't answer then maintainers can
>> adopt a package at will, making themselves first maintainer and hasufell
>> second. packages that are not adopted after some time can be moved to
>> maintainer needed
>> 3c) if he says he won't come back ever, period, full stop, then, as sad
>> as it is, its open season
>
> We can talk about a council email, but in general anybody can
> co-maintain anything in Gentoo without anybody's blessing.
I was thinking first maintainer so you get assigned the bug. But that's
a small point.
--
Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D.
Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened]
E-Mail : blueness@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA
GnuPG ID : F52D4BBA
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-05 11:49 ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-05 12:01 ` Alexander Berntsen
2016-02-05 12:13 ` Rich Freeman
@ 2016-02-05 19:00 ` Daniel Campbell (zlg)
2016-02-05 19:03 ` Daniel Campbell (zlg)
2 siblings, 1 reply; 47+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Campbell (zlg) @ 2016-02-05 19:00 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
-------- Original Message --------
From: "Anthony G. Basile" <blueness@gentoo.org>
Sent: February 5, 2016 3:49:42 AM PST
To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
On 2/5/16 3:01 AM, Daniel Campbell wrote:
> ---
>
> Out of the above list, I'd be willing to take over x11-wm/i3.
>
I have an idea that I'll pass by the council on the 14th. Basically,
1) we officially contact hasufell as the council
2) wait a week
3a) if he says he is coming back, then do nothing
3b) if he says he might come back or doesn't answer then maintainers can
adopt a package at will, making themselves first maintainer and hasufell
second. packages that are not adopted after some time can be moved to
maintainer needed
3c) if he says he won't come back ever, period, full stop, then, as sad
as it is, its open season
I don't know how much community discussion this needs, but that's what
I'm going to propose. As may be noted a few packages there are
important and we don't want them left unmaintained while at the same
time leaving the door open. Currently I'm baby sitting libressl and
mbedtls.
That sounds like a good idea to me. I think it's fair to treat something like this with same caution and gravity. It'd be hasty of us to divvy out packages at the first sign of a developer losing interest in or becoming angry with Gentoo. As you said, sometimes it gets to you. Personal lives have a way of influencing professional lives and volunteer work, and volunteer work is usually the first to suffer.
I'll wait for a council decision before touching anything.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-05 19:00 ` Daniel Campbell (zlg)
@ 2016-02-05 19:03 ` Daniel Campbell (zlg)
0 siblings, 0 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Campbell (zlg) @ 2016-02-05 19:03 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
Ugh, sorry. I still can't get K-9 to let me reply at the bottom, so my reply got mixed in at the bottom of yours! *sigh*
-------- Original Message --------
From: "Daniel Campbell (zlg)" <zlg@gentoo.org>
Sent: February 5, 2016 11:00:45 AM PST
To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
-------- Original Message --------
From: "Anthony G. Basile" <blueness@gentoo.org>
Sent: February 5, 2016 3:49:42 AM PST
To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
On 2/5/16 3:01 AM, Daniel Campbell wrote:
> ---
>
> Out of the above list, I'd be willing to take over x11-wm/i3.
>
I have an idea that I'll pass by the council on the 14th. Basically,
1) we officially contact hasufell as the council
2) wait a week
3a) if he says he is coming back, then do nothing
3b) if he says he might come back or doesn't answer then maintainers can
adopt a package at will, making themselves first maintainer and hasufell
second. packages that are not adopted after some time can be moved to
maintainer needed
3c) if he says he won't come back ever, period, full stop, then, as sad
as it is, its open season
I don't know how much community discussion this needs, but that's what
I'm going to propose. As may be noted a few packages there are
important and we don't want them left unmaintained while at the same
time leaving the door open. Currently I'm baby sitting libressl and
mbedtls.
That sounds like a good idea to me. I think it's fair to treat something like this with same caution and gravity. It'd be hasty of us to divvy out packages at the first sign of a developer losing interest in or becoming angry with Gentoo. As you said, sometimes it gets to you. Personal lives have a way of influencing professional lives and volunteer work, and volunteer work is usually the first to suffer.
I'll wait for a council decision before touching anything.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-04 10:07 ` [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] " Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-05 7:49 ` Daniel Campbell
@ 2016-02-05 19:24 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2016-02-05 20:45 ` Rich Freeman
` (2 more replies)
2016-02-09 1:23 ` Ian Delaney
2 siblings, 3 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Ciaran McCreesh @ 2016-02-05 19:24 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 05:07:57 -0500
"Anthony G. Basile" <basile@opensource.dyc.edu> wrote:
> Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that he's not
> coming back to Gentoo. Of course, we all have these moments when we
> feel frustrated and have to get away from the madhouse, but if
> hasufell is serious, we need to do something with his packages.
It's a shame a few poisonous developers have chosen to create such a
toxic environment for anyone who dares become involved with a different
package mangler. What can the community do to make sure this doesn't
happen again?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread* Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-05 19:24 ` Ciaran McCreesh
@ 2016-02-05 20:45 ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-05 21:21 ` Andreas K. Huettel
2016-02-05 23:12 ` Alexander Berntsen
2 siblings, 0 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Rich Freeman @ 2016-02-05 20:45 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:24 PM, Ciaran McCreesh
<ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 05:07:57 -0500
> "Anthony G. Basile" <basile@opensource.dyc.edu> wrote:
>> Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that he's not
>> coming back to Gentoo. Of course, we all have these moments when we
>> feel frustrated and have to get away from the madhouse, but if
>> hasufell is serious, we need to do something with his packages.
>
> It's a shame a few poisonous developers have chosen to create such a
> toxic environment for anyone who dares become involved with a different
> package mangler. What can the community do to make sure this doesn't
> happen again?
>
I think I missed something. Are you referring to his interest in
NixOS? I don't think I've seen anything on the lists about that other
than just general interest/etc.
In any case, if anybody is having trouble getting alternative package
managers supported in Gentoo I'm certainly interested. I thought we
put that kind of arguing behind us years ago.
--
Rich
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-05 19:24 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2016-02-05 20:45 ` Rich Freeman
@ 2016-02-05 21:21 ` Andreas K. Huettel
2016-02-05 23:12 ` Alexander Berntsen
2 siblings, 0 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Andreas K. Huettel @ 2016-02-05 21:21 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
> On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 05:07:57 -0500
>
> "Anthony G. Basile" <basile@opensource.dyc.edu> wrote:
> > Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that he's not
> > coming back to Gentoo. Of course, we all have these moments when we
> > feel frustrated and have to get away from the madhouse, but if
> > hasufell is serious, we need to do something with his packages.
>
> It's a shame a few poisonous developers have chosen to create such a
> toxic environment for anyone who dares become involved with a different
> package mangler. What can the community do to make sure this doesn't
> happen again?
Isn't it beautiful when nice and friendly people meet each other? :)
--
Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer
perl, office, comrel, council
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-05 19:24 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2016-02-05 20:45 ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-05 21:21 ` Andreas K. Huettel
@ 2016-02-05 23:12 ` Alexander Berntsen
2016-02-07 9:04 ` Santiago Ferreira
2 siblings, 1 reply; 47+ messages in thread
From: Alexander Berntsen @ 2016-02-05 23:12 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
On 05/02/16 20:24, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> It's a shame a few poisonous developers have chosen to create such
> a toxic environment for anyone who dares become involved with a
> different package mangler. What can the community do to make sure
> this doesn't happen again?
The issues Julian have with Gentoo are not as petty as you seem to
indicate. Thanks though -- I literally LOLd.
- --
Alexander
bernalex@gentoo.org
https://secure.plaimi.net/~alexander
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-05 23:12 ` Alexander Berntsen
@ 2016-02-07 9:04 ` Santiago Ferreira
0 siblings, 0 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Santiago Ferreira @ 2016-02-07 9:04 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2212 bytes --]
Hi everyone,
My name is Santiago Ferreira (aka sanux) , I'm from Uruguay.
I been using Gentoo for a while, from time to time I use another Linux
distribution too(when I need a system running and I have less time to
compile it), but I really like Gentoo because It's the Linux flavour that
helps me more in learning and gives me a lot of freedom of choice.
I want to start contributing more to the project, in the past I participate
in a few bugs days and was a really nice experience.
Step by step I want to become a Gentoo developer, so just in case, I
introduce me, and let me know where to start, hope that Julien re-think his
decision, seems I could learn a lot with him, he is maintaining a lot of
packages.
all the best
Santiago
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:12 PM, Alexander Berntsen <bernalex@gentoo.org>
wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> On 05/02/16 20:24, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > It's a shame a few poisonous developers have chosen to create such
> > a toxic environment for anyone who dares become involved with a
> > different package mangler. What can the community do to make sure
> > this doesn't happen again?
> The issues Julian have with Gentoo are not as petty as you seem to
> indicate. Thanks though -- I literally LOLd.
> - --
> Alexander
> bernalex@gentoo.org
> https://secure.plaimi.net/~alexander
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-04 10:07 ` [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] " Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-05 7:49 ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-05 19:24 ` Ciaran McCreesh
@ 2016-02-09 1:23 ` Ian Delaney
2 siblings, 0 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Ian Delaney @ 2016-02-09 1:23 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 05:07:57 -0500
"Anthony G. Basile" <basile@opensource.dyc.edu> wrote:
> On 2/1/16 2:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, February 14 at 19:00
> > UTC in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
> >
> > Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to
> > discuss or vote on.
> >
> > Justin
> >
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that he's not
> coming back to Gentoo. Of course, we all have these moments when we
> feel frustrated and have to get away from the madhouse, but if
> hasufell is serious, we need to do something with his packages. He
> maintains a bunch of important packages and leads an important
> project (libressl). I've taken on libressl and mbedtls as a second
> maintainer, but we should think about the other packages.
>
> If he's reading this, I would really like him back since he's a
> talented contributor, but score low on charisma and I'm not sure I
> can persuade him.
>
You won't
--
kind regards
Ian Delaney
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-01 19:25 ` [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14 Justin Lecher (jlec)
2016-02-02 8:06 ` Dirkjan Ochtman
2016-02-04 10:07 ` [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] " Anthony G. Basile
@ 2016-02-07 11:15 ` Andrew Savchenko
2016-02-12 22:22 ` Michał Górny
3 siblings, 0 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Andrew Savchenko @ 2016-02-07 11:15 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project
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Hi all,
On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 20:25:20 +0100 Justin Lecher (jlec) wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, February 14 at 19:00 UTC
> in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
>
> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
> or vote on.
I'd like to ask the Council on the matter of bugs assignment
automation. The issue is discussed in the following thread:
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/c9675f0359679007054b57de123c0bf3
The first question: Should we automate bugs assignment if one and
only one valid "category/package" is present in the bug's title?
1. Yes, automate assignment of all new bugs.
2. Yes, but only allow such automation for users with bug
assignment capabilities (e.g. put a button for bug-wranglers).
3. No, keep current status quo.
The second question (only if answers 1 or 2 were selected for the
first question): Should we automate assignment for bugs with
multiple maintainers?
1. Yes, assign to the first maintainer, CC all other.
2. No, leave this bugs to bug-wranglers.
The third question (only if answer 1 was selected for the first
question): For bugs that will be automated should automation be
delayed so, that bug wranglers will have an opportunity to review
such bugs?
1. Yes, delay bugs assignment for N day(s). (N is to be
determined by the Council as well.)
2. No, assign them immediately.
***************************************************************
Summary of opinions (excuse me if I missed something) (roman
numerals stands for the question number, question/answer format):
I/1
Pros:
a) We save a lot of the manpower.
b) Latency of bugs handling will be decreased.
Cons:
a) In some corner cases it is possible that bugs will be
improperly assigned and due to inactive developers they may be never
be properly assigned.
b) Incomplete bug reports will be occasionally assigned to
developers (e.g. with missing emerge --info or build logs), thus
developers will have to request such information themselves.
I/2
Pros:
a) Human check of bugs will reduce error rate for corner cases
or incomplete bug reports which automation can't handle properly.
b) We still save some manpower (e.g. reduce load on
bug-wranglers).
Cons:
a) We loose a lot of man-power.
b) Latency of bugs assignment and thus handling is increased.
I/3
Pros:
a) Keep current well-known more-or-less working state of matters.
Cons:
a) A huge load on bug-wranglers, most (all?) of them are devs
which can spend their time to actually fix bugs.
b) Large latency of bugs assignment (may be more than a
week for some bugs and several days in general) is kept.
II/1
Pros:
a) A large number of packages contains multiple maintainers, so
including them into automation process will sufficiently increase
effectiveness of the automation.
b) This approach already works well for tinderbox ran by Toralf
Förster (we have a lot of good bug reports by this tinderbox).
Cons:
a) It is rare but possible that first maintainer is not the
recepient where bugs should be assigned, thus real assignee will be
in the CC.
II/2
Pros:
a) Probability of bug assignment (versus CC'ing) to the wrong
maintainer is eliminated.
Cons:
a) A whole lot of packages is excluded from the automation
process.
III/1
Pros:
a) Probability of catching incomplete reports or wrong bug
assignments by the human being is increased.
Cons:
b) Burden on bug-wranglers is increased considerably.
c) Latency of bugs assignment and handling is increased.
III/2
Pros:
a) We save a lot of manpower for actual Gentoo development.
b) Zero latency in assignment may lead to faster bugs resolving
and improved user experience.
Cons:
a) In corner cases bugs may be misassigned.
b) If bugs are not complete, developers will have to request
required information themselves.
Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-01 19:25 ` [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14 Justin Lecher (jlec)
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2016-02-07 11:15 ` [gentoo-project] " Andrew Savchenko
@ 2016-02-12 22:22 ` Michał Górny
2016-02-12 22:34 ` Anthony G. Basile
3 siblings, 1 reply; 47+ messages in thread
From: Michał Górny @ 2016-02-12 22:22 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Justin Lecher (jlec); +Cc: gentoo-project, Gentoo Council
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On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 20:25:20 +0100
"Justin Lecher (jlec)" <jlec@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, February 14 at 19:00 UTC
> in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
>
> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
> or vote on.
Since the agenda hasn't been sent yet, I would like the Council to
consider helping out with removing cases of 'use*' function calls in
global scope.
The issue is known for quite some time already, and the offending
ebuilds and eclasses are currently tracked in bug #566518 [1].
Those functions can not be used in global scope as their results depend
on configuration. This causes two major issues:
1. it breaks metadata invariancy -- the ebuild metadata may change
dependening on value of USE flags, therefore either invalidating caches
or causing the package manager to obtain incorrect results from cache,
2. it causes circular dependencies in configuration -- USE flags can be
applied to specific SLOTs, SLOTs may depend on USE flags...
The global scope use calls were always forbidden by the PMS. Portage
bans it in EAPI 6 but we'd like to extend the ban to the remaining
EAPIs. However, at the moment we can't because that would cause
existing violations to prevent users from installing toolchain.
So far most of the developers understood the issue and fixed their
violations. However, for years toolchain is actively refusing to do so,
and either closing our requests or blocking them with request to
provide support for USE-dynamic SLOTs. Which is quite unlikely to be
fulfilled since it would still cause the second issue listed above.
Sadly, our inability to ban this is causing new violations to be
committed accidentally by developers.
Therefore, I would like to ask for Council's help on this issue. I see
the possible following actions that would help the cause:
a. officially refusing the 'dynamic slot' request [2] so that it would
not be used to block fixing the QA violations indefinitely,
b. setting an official deadline on fixing the remaining violations
and making the calls fatal.
[1]:https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=566518
[2]:https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=174407
--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
<http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-12 22:22 ` Michał Górny
@ 2016-02-12 22:34 ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-13 0:44 ` Andreas K. Huettel
2016-02-13 8:30 ` Michał Górny
0 siblings, 2 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Anthony G. Basile @ 2016-02-12 22:34 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Michał Górny, Justin Lecher (jlec)
Cc: gentoo-project, Gentoo Council
On 2/12/16 5:22 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
>
> Therefore, I would like to ask for Council's help on this issue. I see
> the possible following actions that would help the cause:
>
> a. officially refusing the 'dynamic slot' request [2] so that it would
> not be used to block fixing the QA violations indefinitely,
>
> b. setting an official deadline on fixing the remaining violations
> and making the calls fatal.
>
> [1]:https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=566518
> [2]:https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=174407
>
I was aware of, but haven't really thought through, toolchain.eclass use
of use* in global scope. Do you have a solution? I'm okay with putting
pressure on developers but if its a technically difficult problem, I'd
rather be part of the solution than the problem.
--
Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D.
Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened]
E-Mail : blueness@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA
GnuPG ID : F52D4BBA
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-12 22:34 ` Anthony G. Basile
@ 2016-02-13 0:44 ` Andreas K. Huettel
2016-02-13 8:30 ` Michał Górny
1 sibling, 0 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Andreas K. Huettel @ 2016-02-13 0:44 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project, Gentoo Council
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Am Freitag, 12. Februar 2016, 23:34:50 schrieben Sie:
> I was aware of, but haven't really thought through, toolchain.eclass use
> of use* in global scope. Do you have a solution? I'm okay with putting
> pressure on developers but if its a technically difficult problem, I'd
> rather be part of the solution than the problem.
So far nobody has been able to explain to me what the actual need for the
multislot "switch" for gcc in our main portage tree is. I'll be happy to be
taught why this isnt just lazyness and/or power play.
Having multiple gcc's of same *minor* version (i.e. 4.8.1, 4.8.2, ...)
installed at the same time for testing purposes is a valid use case, but way
more exotic than e.g. running KDE git master. Code our users imho shouldnt
even see by default. -> overlay
Over the years many related bugs have been filed, but they tend to magically
enter RESOLVED state without any substantial changes to reality.
- --
Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14
2016-02-12 22:34 ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-13 0:44 ` Andreas K. Huettel
@ 2016-02-13 8:30 ` Michał Górny
1 sibling, 0 replies; 47+ messages in thread
From: Michał Górny @ 2016-02-13 8:30 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-project, Anthony G. Basile, Justin Lecher (jlec); +Cc: Gentoo Council
Dnia 12 lutego 2016 23:34:50 CET, "Anthony G. Basile" <blueness@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
>On 2/12/16 5:22 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
>
>>
>> Therefore, I would like to ask for Council's help on this issue. I
>see
>> the possible following actions that would help the cause:
>>
>> a. officially refusing the 'dynamic slot' request [2] so that it
>would
>> not be used to block fixing the QA violations indefinitely,
>>
>> b. setting an official deadline on fixing the remaining violations
>> and making the calls fatal.
>>
>> [1]:https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=566518
>> [2]:https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=174407
>>
>
>I was aware of, but haven't really thought through, toolchain.eclass
>use
>of use* in global scope. Do you have a solution? I'm okay with
>putting
>pressure on developers but if its a technically difficult problem, I'd
>rather be part of the solution than the problem.
There was a number of possible alternatives discussed on the future EAPI bug. So far with no real consensus.
--
Best regards,
Michał Górny (by phone)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 47+ messages in thread