From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4507413877A for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 19:20:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 97340E081A; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 19:20:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-f176.google.com (mail-wi0-f176.google.com [209.85.212.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C727DE0818 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 19:20:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f176.google.com with SMTP id n3so13458980wiv.15 for ; Fri, 04 Jul 2014 12:20:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=WvqrHrfjpYKA5dGO4yV4VigQZmQsTqAEMCMlJc/vQkw=; b=BiPIektxLkSWA067xE9ijYwhq/SmR64Dim+vwe+tjk3x0NHLZU2QMzl11nEatFG6ko ucDpSBpPhZ8g1KZDuMMx5m6UF9dp2aXJhQe7L/mghggpxUjq6ZSojKJthB13Dqy4Xdok 4Knqj8zB5LjG63wvG4qRyCt0dxkWt76T7IMlJxJqY2I7V8RbnJEL9JMtlxuDixEaWwjn SxHTfz8cXc1Oiz5ZVd6AE7KnJ+fMXKu/kNe4MDDaFph68ykc9nfrC9FHQYayA5jNKtj3 Zs5LfYrETYjc7GLW6sYR6u16qj+bq9/yi9hKCucsw0fvP7tKY6cOWaah9497ssbmam2s cmDA== X-Received: by 10.194.222.5 with SMTP id qi5mr13991425wjc.62.1404501636613; Fri, 04 Jul 2014 12:20:36 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.8.103 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 12:20:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <539BD2E2.7030803@gentoo.org> <3677509.vVmt2iqRkA@kailua> <53B53E12.10209@opensource.dyc.edu> <1827087.o57vyRvkxh@kailua> <53B58E33.5010906@gentoo.org> <53B6834C.5050003@gentoo.org> From: Seemant Kulleen Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 12:20:16 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo Council 2014 / 2015 election To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1b326230d9204fd6305bc X-Archives-Salt: a3d11405-f2ee-4f3f-9a2b-677f26e65c49 X-Archives-Hash: ff7f5416ac84ebe0af14b3da488d1e04 --001a11c1b326230d9204fd6305bc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Denis, I also want to make the point that I'm not forgetting your own recent pain with respect to Gentoo and the way some things are run. I urge you to please keep in mind that the only way to change it is to not lash out because of the pain (lashing out usually has the unfortunate side-effect that people who had nothing to do with causing you anger still get hurt by your reaction to them), but to accept it and work on healing it instead. Healing the pain is a lot more vulnerable, but it's also more honest, and I believe it can be done. I've seen it happen. Within Gentoo. With people who thought they were enemies. Within the last 6 months (right, you two?). Maybe 7 (I was in Zambia at the time). Thanks, Seemant On 4 July 2014 12:15, Seemant Kulleen wrote: > Hi Denis, > > You're obviously frustrated (and you might even be giving voice to more > than just your own feeling, here). > > I didn't read Rich's replies as ordering anyone around. In fact, I dare > say Rich is very consistent at suggesting and discussing, but I have yet to > witness him order someone around on this list. > > I have had no personal interaction with him (ever), but he doesn't seem > like an order-around kinda guy here. > > Having said all of that, there's a LOT of baggage around Gentoo's > leadership. You (Denis) know from our private conversations that that > baggage started around 2002/3 and that I've been carrying a lot of > emotional baggage as well. > > But this is 2014. This is now, this is a time that we can shed baggage, > because it serves no other purpose than to weigh us down. There's nobody > left to blame. > > I ask, as user, that you please take a more charitable approach to > everyone on the team with the simple understanding that everyone in their > own way just wants to improve Gentoo. > > Thanks again, > > Seemant > > > > On 4 July 2014 12:06, Denis Dupeyron wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Seemant Kulleen >> wrote: >> > I'm sorry to speak publicly, but isn't this email exactly the kind of >> > attitude we're trying to reverse. As a senior member of the project, I >> > really would hope you set a better example of the change that you, >> yourself, >> > have said you wanted to see. >> >> You are perfectly right to speak publicly. The point I was trying to >> make in this email is very simple. The only good way of changing how a >> team operates, for better or worse, is to join it. Ordering people >> around without actually doing anything only works if you're the one >> signing the paychecks. >> >> Have we reached a point where council members are such divas that they >> can't even be told when they missed a perfectly good opportunity to >> shut up? >> >> Denis. >> >> > --001a11c1b326230d9204fd6305bc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Denis,

I also want to make the poin= t that I'm not forgetting your own recent pain with respect to Gentoo a= nd the way some things are run.=C2=A0 I urge you to please keep in mind tha= t the only way to change it is to not lash out because of the pain (lashing= out usually has the unfortunate side-effect that people who had nothing to= do with causing you anger still get hurt by your reaction to them), but to= accept it and work on healing it instead.

Healing the pain is a lot more vulnerable, but it's also more hones= t, and I believe it can be done.=C2=A0 I've seen it happen.=C2=A0 Withi= n Gentoo.=C2=A0 With people who thought they were enemies.=C2=A0 Within the= last 6 months (right, you two?).=C2=A0 Maybe 7 (I was in Zambia at the tim= e).

Thanks,

Seemant



On 4 July 2014 12:15, Seemant K= ulleen <seemantk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Deni= s,

You're obviously frustrated (and you might even be givi= ng voice to more than just your own feeling, here).

I didn't read Rich's replies as ordering anyone around.= =C2=A0 In fact, I dare say Rich is very consistent at suggesting and discus= sing, but I have yet to witness him order someone around on this list.

I have had no personal interaction with him (ever), but he doesn't = seem like an order-around kinda guy here.

Having said all of t= hat, there's a LOT of baggage around Gentoo's leadership. You (Deni= s) know from our private conversations that that baggage started around 200= 2/3 and that I've been carrying a lot of emotional baggage as well.

But this is 2014. This is now, this is a time that we can shed baggage,= because it serves no other purpose than to weigh us down. There's nobo= dy left to blame.

I ask, as user, that you please take a more = charitable approach to everyone on the team with the simple understanding t= hat everyone in their own way just wants to improve Gentoo.

Thanks again,

Seemant



On= 4 July 2014 12:06, Denis Dupeyron <calchan@gentoo.org> wro= te:
On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Seeman= t Kulleen <seema= ntk@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm sorry to speak publicly, but isn't this email exactly the = kind of
> attitude we're trying to reverse. As a senior member of the projec= t, I
> really would hope you set a better example of the change that you, you= rself,
> have said you wanted to see.

You are perfectly right to speak publicly. The point I was trying to<= br> make in this email is very simple. The only good way of changing how a
team operates, for better or worse, is to join it. Ordering people
around without actually doing anything only works if you're the one
signing the paychecks.

Have we reached a point where council members are such divas that they
can't even be told when they missed a perfectly good opportunity to
shut up?

Denis.



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