From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (unknown [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6B0B1381FA for ; Mon, 12 May 2014 19:04:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D694E0AF2; Mon, 12 May 2014 19:04:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-f177.google.com (mail-wi0-f177.google.com [209.85.212.177]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A91CE0AED for ; Mon, 12 May 2014 19:04:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f177.google.com with SMTP id f8so5041530wiw.16 for ; Mon, 12 May 2014 12:04:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=n72CebWWPnd1F3pskjJx+JCmb+pGlpwg+cl2dCPKLt0=; b=QVvkS08jAJNbNDgg7it8eXFy5qg/HjHDqNFgDhFIwFrz8T/6Ix8eF/xAmErCaKpuiu tiHmgb01F0DGagGmGc/Zmo+GpcZBBPO7yU6Q9PvOPjkfzQKKrNu315YB6cBfepwlD2ES 4qPOzkTP+colamxWpRrBSEJhm1Ie6We/LUlG3ZUC93+wcltdV8FUlIFM+xpiAAyeOCsW a4pDMfpeyLQON9hyoNVw15PcgWzW8oXaeVaYhA346FNDIVnyfJWT+igDNMnSpa0HovEq Bb8rFKJVyJFjWNFubz9py8OguT/4QVZ9lOsfHmCpEkUKBnNs7JsGe0IEvLFreImmIK6E 0dTg== X-Received: by 10.194.88.74 with SMTP id be10mr2990003wjb.71.1399921452233; Mon, 12 May 2014 12:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.192.105 with HTTP; Mon, 12 May 2014 12:03:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Seemant Kulleen Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 12:03:52 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: [gentoo-project] 4 Lists, 2 Requests and a matrix. To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf198badfb86404f9389cfd X-Archives-Salt: ed81e922-e2de-44c1-926e-e398a1bf2aec X-Archives-Hash: 1f53da9d52caf148745e50511aedd2eb --047d7bf198badfb86404f9389cfd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 My Dear Respected Gentoo Developers, Lend Uncle Seemant your attention for a minute, please. :) The past few days on gentoo-project and in #gentoo-qa have been discouraging to witness. I can only imagine (or remember) how discouraging it must feel to be a participant. If you are interested, here are my summary observations: - The QA team is an entirely brand new team. - The team-members were put in place by the collective assent of the Gentoo developer community. - No prior team was in place to spoonfeed them any information. No batons to pass, no knowledge to transfer. Processes, guidelines, and frameworks, rules of engagement, rules of the road, etc. -- none of these existed for the QA team to orient themselves into their new roles. - The QA team members share a motivation. - To constantly improve the Gentoo experience. >From this standpoint I'm seeing a ton of missed expectations. For example (stated and implied by words, if not intention) within Gentoo: - *The QA team will fix everything. Right now. I meant, yesterday, sorry.* - *I am correct. The other party is wrong. It's so *obvious*. Why isn't the QA team just addressing this already??* - *Why does QA get cc'd all over the place on bugzilla?* - *Most of the things QA gets cc'd on have nothing to do with us.* - *QA's job is to ensure the integrity of the portage tree.* - *QA's job is to be the technical equivalent of ComRel.* - *I'm not sure what the rest of the QA team thinks QA's job is?* - *I just want to do this part of QA.* - *Go raise this on the mailing lists, then council, then QA, if you don't like it.* - *This isn't fair. You're not being fair.* - *QA is afraid of the community and wants to pacify everyone, which makes them ineffective.* The above is a tangled hairball of: - QA members & non-QA-members - IRC & Mailing lists. - Assumption & Presumption - Truth & Embellishment According to the Principle of Humanity, I must ascribe the best possible intention to someone else's actions and words. (Allow that others are driven by the same pure motivations that drive me.) Which is related to my final observation: Gentoo developers, as a whole and as individuals, share the intention *to improve the Gentoo experience.* Finally, my request: 1. QA Team: please unite as a team, and figure out: 1. Your ABI: 1. What should people expect from you as a team and you as individual members and doers on that team. 2. Your API: 1. How do people interact with you? When is it appropriate? What is the chain of conversation to get to you? 3. Your customers: 1. Your fellow developers. 2. Us users. 2. Gentoo Developer Team at Large: 1. Please engage with the team that you guys have voiced into place: 1. What responsibilities are appropriate for their shoulders? 2. What authority is appropriate for them to be effective? Humbly, Seemant Kulleen There was no spoon There is no spoon. --047d7bf198badfb86404f9389cfd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My Dear Respected Gentoo Developers,

Lend Uncle Seemant your attention for a minute, please. := )

The past few days on gentoo-project and in #gento= o-qa have been discouraging to witness.=C2=A0 I can only imagine (or rememb= er) how discouraging it must feel to be a participant.=C2=A0 If you are int= erested, here are my summary observations:
  • The QA team is an entirely brand new team.=C2=A0
    • T= he team-members were put in place by the collective assent of the Gentoo de= veloper community.
    • No prior team was in place to spoonfeed them any= information.=C2=A0 No batons to pass, no knowledge to transfer.=C2=A0 Proc= esses, guidelines, and frameworks, rules of engagement, rules of the road, = etc. -- none of these existed for the QA team to orient themselves into the= ir new roles.
  • The QA team members share a motivation.
    • =C2=A0To = constantly improve the Gentoo experience.

From this standp= oint I'm seeing a ton of missed expectations. For example (stated and i= mplied by words, if not intention) within Gentoo:

  • The QA team will fix everything.=C2=A0 Right now.=C2=A0 I meant,= yesterday, sorry.
  • I am correct.=C2=A0 The other party is wr= ong.=C2=A0 It's so *obvious*. Why isn't the QA team just addressing= this already??
  • Why does QA get cc'd all over the place on bugzilla?
  • Most of the things QA gets cc'd on have nothing to do with us.<= /li>
  • QA's job is to ensure the integrity of the portage tree.=
  • QA's job is to be the technical equivalent of ComRel.
  • I'm not sure what the rest of the QA team thinks QA's job is?<= /i>
  • I just want to do this part of QA.
  • Go raise t= his on the mailing lists, then council, then QA, if you don't like it.<= /i>
  • This isn't fair.=C2=A0 You're not being fair.
  • QA is afraid of the community and wants to pacify everyone, which makes th= em ineffective.

The above is a tangled hairball of:

  • QA members & non-QA-members
  • IRC & Mailing lists.
  • <= li>Assumption & Presumption
  • Truth & Embellishment
  • <= /ul>

    According to the Principle of Humanity, I must ascribe the best possible in= tention to someone else's actions and words.=C2=A0 (Allow that others a= re driven by the same pure motivations that drive me.)

    Which is related to my final observation: Gentoo developers, as a whole = and as individuals, share the intention to improve the Gentoo experience= .

    Finally, my request:

    1. QA Team: please unite as a = team, and figure out:
      1. Your ABI:
        1. What should people expect from you as a team = and you as individual members and doers on that team.
      2. Your= API:
        1. How do people interact with you?=C2=A0 When is it appropr= iate?=C2=A0 What is the chain of conversation to get to you?
      3. Your customers:
        1. Your fellow developers.
        2. Us use= rs.
    2. Gentoo Developer Team at Large:
      1. Pleas= e engage with the team that you guys have voiced into place:
        1. What responsibilities are appropriate for their shoulders?
        2. What aut= hority is appropriate for them to be effective?

    Humbl= y,

    Seemant Kulleen

    There was no spoon

    There is no spoon.


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