From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4150A1381F3 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 02:52:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 56E47E0830; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 02:52:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ie0-f174.google.com (mail-ie0-f174.google.com [209.85.223.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9DD9E0825 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 02:52:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 9so9657828iec.19 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 19:52:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=wbOw4J7xOD94u+tlizGa2kSpRTaEZMq7ZNJUWu9AyDE=; b=i6DDjK4xXx4KZddAL4Vl0rnh/0zaWFec/jTvmt99f9YjusdHDNmJelbrp1jB/nLiTb mHEdCyg2A1+6eCZFDxv/oDvr8EMbpkxCKNE6FMthI0bjcnp2wmzwYvB/Xq4xVN7l5XB7 +9MYpycR1aqAtF+KzsiHtbvqE5NgiYegbb+XuqUvlk9crOP4mn0w/Po2l2UfTwUmEbi1 bDnrgZCpmS/BnnZqkuIRJMLW8XOb8YOdrMwvq7na7HTHAfW+DnKuROWBNf134rhTSYDk 0SL59P3dvylboOZuLoaOgncZyadf51suZzAOFQdRfjaOSfJP1Q/kcBf2pGIsevQhYfbM ckcg== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.53.129 with SMTP id n1mr9067224icg.28.1371091936877; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 19:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.92.166 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 19:52:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20920.53531.334716.351193@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> References: <1371039602.27198.24.camel@localhost> <20130612162535.570c2bc0@gentoo.org> <51B898F9.5070105@gentoo.org> <20920.40688.601476.657961@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <20920.41908.440583.378650@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <20130612185106.0f2b0120@gentoo.org> <20920.53531.334716.351193@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 22:52:16 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: eR03centIiZUwCRo5wBdAX_e8Qk Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Council: Policy for Systemd units From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Cc: =?UTF-8?B?TWljaGHFgiBHw7Nybnk=?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 0fe61253-2ba9-416d-acf9-d770522b8178 X-Archives-Hash: 365605b70f33c29baf33483529885ea7 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Ulrich Mueller wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 12 Jun 2013, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > >>> I was more thinking about support files for Emacs, where we do this >>> all the time: If the file is included with the upstream package, >>> it's being installed by that package's ebuild. Otherwise, it will >>> go into its own separate package. (And I guess it is similar for >>> Vim.) > >> That's very inconsistent and therefore problematic for users. Some >> packages work out-of-the-box, others require manually merging >> additional packages... > > There's nothing inconsistent about it. Different upstream, different > versioning scheme, different release cycles, therefore it goes into > its own package. Everything else would just be messy. > We're talking about stuff like openrc init.d scripts, logrotate scripts, systemd units, and so on. Do we really want postfix-binaries, postfix-upstreamconfig (which points to directories we don't actually install stuff in), postfix-gentooconfig (which actually works), postfix-openrc, postfix-logrotate, postfix-systemd, postfix-selinux, and so on? In order to avoid installing a 1kb systemd unit file we'll instead dump an extra 5 packages in /usr/portage complete with each having a filesdir, manifest, changelog, and ebuilds, more cruft in various caches, edb, and so on. If you want a vanilla postfix install, just download it from upstream, or go build your own LFS system. The whole point of a distro is to do basic integration, and not simply be a glorified upstream mirror. Gentoo is light on integration by design, but that doesn't mean that we can't ship init scripts, or systemd units. When you're talking about substantial amounts of modular change splitting packages makes sense. However, we really shouldn't be splitting them over a single file, unless that file is somehow really destructive simply by being around (hence flags to control .la files and such). Rich