From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53DCD138A1A for ; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 19:24:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D4F0DE0854; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 19:24:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pa0-f46.google.com (mail-pa0-f46.google.com [209.85.220.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A480E0845 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 19:24:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id bj1so30395776pad.5 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 11:24:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=6KwniZgddL4QBEhvRfA+bt8lTXXlxsYysLFbyrhB8+s=; b=QHzqUfo+CTLmdVdUzHhzK46fWb9KRECIjkiMU6uqpwLiSoTOaursqnzkfH15h/nNso 1LsHkjeq9B+YToWB+lYOZoqkDpM5zM6xOKbiGyqeOLreOrfQypltlC2IvNqem3Kg/lGs CSNsj2S4Z8TqiadeyG2snqII9vmFNDC0EVRT2lXg5IjDkRGtvQnjqQEXfrayOaGSRYbK sdOJ1mTcogCResseR3+RD4pLOgCDfhQWxHu5Jfy4Bhi4LfU4C89NvYMoesv48Fk1vOWl GNDE034kvcQQkIW2+lLwmUSUib+GLskbk3NQD3N/f4FMkT9NbLWkUi86lojomDDQW4I8 pzYQ== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.233.74 with SMTP id tu10mr33353317pac.135.1424028258316; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 11:24:18 -0800 (PST) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.70.85.39 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 11:24:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201502142148.30540.dilfridge@gentoo.org> <54DFC134.5070300@gentoo.org> <54DFC771.8060802@gentoo.org> <20150214221352.3c52aa6f@googlemail.com> <54DFCAF4.8090306@gentoo.org> <20150214223148.0aa094da@googlemail.com> <20150215013540.e861fb20ebcbea7b49b2ec19@gentoo.org> <20150214224054.16de1017@googlemail.com> <54DFD5FD.4010401@sporkbox.us> <20150214231553.7a8b1d2e@googlemail.com> <20150215160358.351879785830bfd5fdaff3bd@gentoo.org> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 14:24:18 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: YXuAePxjQ5MyuWPKKivjaHzXF1g Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo, GitHub, and the Social Contract From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Archives-Salt: 0a93079f-f270-4a97-a1c1-b66d51a6c910 X-Archives-Hash: f03af54fa8e9c7f2e79be9f58c5bbdae On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Alexey Lapitsky wrote: > > 1. Volunteer work. > Anthony, I'm glad that you brought up volunteer work. > I'm pretty sure Gentoo Infra team is extremely busy with all kinds of > problems. The volunteers' time is arguably the most valuable resource > Gentoo has. > In my opinion we should do everything possible in order to save > volunteers' time, especially when it comes to baseline work (such as > maintaining and upgrading the infra services). > > From this perspective, It would be unreasonable to ask Gentoo Infra > team to support an open-source solution because GitHub might change > policy. > GitHub policy change would only affect Gentoo short term. GitHub usage > will bring a lot of value and will save volunteers' time long-term. In my experience you actually have to approach volunteer work in the opposite way. Ask whatever you want, just don't expect it to happen unless you're the volunteer. There is nothing wrong with pointing out that using a proprietary solution like Github is problematic, and calling for somebody to deploy something free instead. It is even better if you go ahead and step up and deploy something free yourself. You don't need anybody's permission to set up Gitlab for Gentoo. Heck, I'm betting the Council/Trustees would even be willing to let you have a gentoo.org subdomain for it. Volunteers are often motivated by perceived benefit of their work. If they feel like the thing they're working on is really worthwhile and sought after, they're probably more likely to put in time working on it. However, that isn't a guarantee - something vital to Gentoo could easily go years without any volunteer contributions at all. I do think it would be beneficial to make our infra more portable for this reason. I think having official Gentoo infra makes a lot of sense, but ideally it should be possible for anybody with a stack of VMs/containers to be able to spin up their own Gentoo infra such that if they just pointed their DNS server at it, then all the Gentoo tools work just fine. That will make it easier for everybody to contribute to infra, and make everything that much more portable when inevitably one of our sponsors has to drop us (we have incredibly generous sponsors, but not every arrangement can last forever). -- Rich