From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A57131389E2 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 15:12:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 09244E09F1; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 15:12:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ig0-f177.google.com (mail-ig0-f177.google.com [209.85.213.177]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7436CE09ED for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 15:12:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ig0-f177.google.com with SMTP id z20so12639091igj.10 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 07:12:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=g8dpPyTcqezsmyWMgfUR7Ra9f0MgnoZsZ8W/UQIj3ug=; b=YF/54B3wbqqaJscyU97/VNFCYCeMrLj8H9xOh7Epm8wqxx7CxeRHGViroxDu1qv4MI fyq6B65YAEt+HUIXGxKRofDJiza1ChUB5i+b48MJVurwo8ANsdXDg/yKRoE7MkRU0A7R c7Beve4nZi5WRlXnGtkbXBbYBspgQxpFX1MBrvo77cdJgovLJNdQTQ/ljh4QXVPXQqZH c3XxJd4UH7Il407G0SnB2dIyzGQwRASK1i4aNOlS52Hv4Q89cm0MHQllSXYc2wbfVT7q jsfT6Di1gYFf/0sZtt+etd3l8Aa40WeIq0iLIhEwRLCbi9h9b5Pl5eOaGKxsmEfKE1xR 3oNQ== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.25.166 with SMTP id d6mr50332699igg.41.1419952353874; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 07:12:33 -0800 (PST) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.29.148 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 07:12:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54A2B5EA.1010403@gentoo.org> References: <201412271334.34252.dilfridge@gentoo.org> <549FECF3.2090101@gentoo.org> <54A1ACCD.6000907@gentoo.org> <54A23154.8010007@gentoo.org> <54A2B5EA.1010403@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 10:12:33 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9m6HF3hJkj1h8UVVCedDLA4dVXU Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Council meeting 2015-01-13: call for agenda items From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Archives-Salt: d1485ddb-fc64-408e-a554-cca70e0d1baa X-Archives-Hash: a387f3ab9496ba5466e7662183717565 On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 9:25 AM, hasufell wrote: > Dean Stephens: >> On 12/29/14 15:06, Rich Freeman wrote: >>> I'll certainly agree that not everything needs a formal project. >>> However, if a project wants to have authority/autonomy beyond >>> anything-goes, then it should welcome members and elect a lead >>> regularly. >>> >> There is at least a defensible argument to be made that being able to >> reject applicants is more important to being able to maintain a coherent >> project than the often indicated duty to accept anyone who shows interest. >> > > What about projects that don't even reject, but rather ignore > devs/contributors? > > We tell them to elect a new lead, so we don't have to deal with the > people who screwed up, but can say "here, they formally are a functional > project according to a random glep... problem solved". > Keep in mind that rules don't exist to justify bad behavior, but to promote good behavior. I can guarantee that whatever rules come out of the council meeting are going to have some loophole that somebody can point to in order to justify their idiotic behavior. We should be aiming for a GLEP that promotes a reasonable way for projects to govern themselves without a lot of unnecessary overhead/etc. If somebody wants to contribute to a project and feels that they can't, they should just ask for help. I don't want to burden every group in Gentoo that gets along just fine because some projects aren't that way. Really, though, it seems like the biggest complaint is AWOL project leads or members. I suggest that the simplest solution in such a case is for somebody to step up and be bold. Just send out an email to the alias announcing that they added themselves to the alias (non-devs can ask somebody to help out with that), call meetings to discuss things that are important, and so on. If not having an active person in charge is detrimental then the team can just organize an election. Leadership is more than titles. FOSS tends to be do-acracy, so if you're trying to do something you probably have more power than you realize. -- Rich