From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C1C1389F5 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 01:03:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 71108E0DC2; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 01:03:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vc0-f179.google.com (mail-vc0-f179.google.com [209.85.220.179]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC66CE0DC0 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 01:03:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f179.google.com with SMTP id le20so5431235vcb.10 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:03:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=AGJil4kvFgHuhxnQFFQnvfNtCLmMjBC2+6vsfOeVQuU=; b=lwB/yaA5GcdvfqVS37d5KygA0KW8Bt2jol925SHSDSqdnMtmbcubvnR/nW341pwOok WtKsHE9ePyJesSwhsjCUw1DCIJ81QvCNqk//NayOc1lUCzhJPhw82g1kAgoAOjQrZex4 OmCW1PYu/Pg7EA1INWmPp4FT+mi8qYq9XrhGrAVS/jFdEltLsri3r1mkpV1X70dVr7Pm rj3xbE7wq4PjM0Lg9ftlYbIzzK0+T48v+0uK8nv7YRiPeTyRudKEnRWd87PkMS7Rn3+1 tXXmiAC1h6MzfeIHjS3TneZ8SBdawnh/aAG/YaprjS6jCNqoStI0bdkQCQMbRRZ04q4J NyVw== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.199.70 with SMTP id er6mr11254706vcb.68.1416186219881; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:03:39 -0800 (PST) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.171.41 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:03:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54694006.7080303@gentoo.org> References: <54665115.3060706@gentoo.org> <54675866.1080506@gentoo.org> <54676A96.4080803@gentoo.org> <54694006.7080303@gentoo.org> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:03:39 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Z6UIczQcKOWCfYORp2qg26aI2Mg Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] towards a more distributed model From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Archives-Salt: f17b4946-17a1-4d80-b4b1-6196c7850562 X-Archives-Hash: bb9dd6a885451ef78519e044ae0ea3ee On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:23 PM, hasufell wrote: > > > So the idea is the following: > * stop recruiting > * move clearly themed overlays/projects out of the tree which are > already practically working outside of the tree (e.g. science, > haskell, ...) > * fix the tools (never ending git story, probably a lot of work needed > on the overlay support front etc) > * focus on the core of gentoo as in: provide abstraction, tools and > the basic structure for people to do cool things. Right now we are > just focussing on keeping the ebuild machinery going, while the rest > pretty much goes downhill. Fast. > * be more open, work more with the community, not just through bugzilla > * review overlays, contribute to overlays > * have a list of high-quality overlays, maybe with a few notes about > them (is it themed? does it conflict with stuff?) > * I can't hold it but say: make ebuilds suck less, so people enjoy > contributing So, most of your post I'm perfectly fine with. I just suggest that you do it this way: * move clearly themed overlays/projects out of the tree which are already practically working outside of the tree (e.g. science, haskell, ...) * fix the tools (never ending git story, probably a lot of work needed on the overlay support front etc) * focus on the core of gentoo as in: provide abstraction, tools and the basic structure for people to do cool things. Right now we are just focussing on keeping the ebuild machinery going, while the rest pretty much goes downhill. Fast. * be more open, work more with the community, not just through bugzilla * review overlays, contribute to overlays * have a list of high-quality overlays, maybe with a few notes about them (is it themed? does it conflict with stuff?) * I can't hold it but say: make ebuilds suck less, so people enjoy contributing THEN IF EVERYTHING IS GOING GREAT * stop recruiting (or more likely, shift the recruiting emphasis) The problem with doing it the other way is that the most likely result is that Gentoo will just die without any of the rest of this stuff happening. The areas you want us to focus on exclusively seem to be the areas that almost none of the current devs actually want to work on. I'm not a big fan of solutions that involve abandoning something that works somewhat well in favor of taking a chance on something new that hasn't even been tried. There is no reason that somebody couldn't build all the infrastructure for overlays, reviews, etc before we stop doing things the old way. Just as most current devs won't work on all the core Gentoo features you want them to work on, they won't work on your new distributed stuff either, even if you forbid them from working on anything else. People work on the things that interest them, and if that stuff interested them, they'd already be doing it. By all means start a project to build the "New Gentoo" and recruit people to join it. The only thing you can really do with policy is tell people NOT to do something. It should really be reserved for stuff that is actively harmful, and maintaining packages isn't harmful. -- Rich