From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21363139085 for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:02:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EE8CC234051; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:02:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qt0-x244.google.com (mail-qt0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7EF6234046 for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:02:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qt0-x244.google.com with SMTP id n13so12256922qtc.0 for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 12:02:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rdczTxc4EyoFQHQxEr1Xl5leMhvLs/w73wSYy5ywa9w=; b=lGtkeLd13ny3hrXm2V1MgtOvw5+xszWWRTFb39tlDIi1Y+qbLpiyQBWVaKA7S1JthU EnIJstQrxwZO2WIOhldgmMgZZk6n8p0S/veOsHUNrpNuaCd9aiMS8yKUTdZcQ2b1u306 EOCtgofz3LP5jeZkA/gAI3xl4a+zTyLw5g1f6RGq1hxRbykiH8bCgbJKvZWpHZ61PBB6 pX4Wzm161RLhbRAK2XudSgEOnIYVksO0yLNHq4etdZ75zGH7MisLlOotNTZP4k1WiLZh aeXvtsAljVMmF5Yr2pGcr+3UJ71Qs54hYNOAK4ysdT1WXqO3Mg7TnHMVdFYCUEnM9V/T uEDA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rdczTxc4EyoFQHQxEr1Xl5leMhvLs/w73wSYy5ywa9w=; b=XTSDplTdgIMNeF7zUx2jTzCRhqXydiM92bi2rs9VuhBF7zjjv7rRSAWP7CKP8qVn0E CT3fE5ClLKmUu7K0xk6Kn5yFX4ksAxljLG72PO70wTO8/z4kqZGgpS0gUwjMngMl88rR OyQ2QR0ZuvZyNZ/TBl6RbzMVdmsv+B/nLNB8HuSZv5Csl5hqCTEwUJTHD46+UZZ54T4J dk02nkL2HPWcZhDU9QgY8JA4DlkiunZJZcTN6SkgwA9wNwDtOQXISB/PuUpWELBw07Nm AotRDBivPmwSU92NSrzT5AecB2VGHiQt+gErJTzGYPb29o8DTS8H/68sUKBldBcH2Tc+ 0XhA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLj1t8skXaQoSApzdNAR5J6pHrOv9Me22QqU+EsloYcJlN6XIr6iEL8mJlab1TYIp8oUET9Vm/TjlIkDg== X-Received: by 10.200.41.73 with SMTP id z9mr25951133qtz.137.1484510573875; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 12:02:53 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.140.16.132 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 12:02:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20170115195209.70d3a748.mgorny@gentoo.org> References: <20170115195209.70d3a748.mgorny@gentoo.org> From: Rich Freeman Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 15:02:53 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: MBSFP2AwH38HlafT0Sfrrea7iWY Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] ComRel / disciplinary action reform proposal To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 54dc93c5-a319-472d-aaba-0aff1dca2fdb X-Archives-Hash: 7f352d95bd9044ab73f84ed220731cf1 On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny = wrote: > > 2. Transparency > --------------- > Any disciplinary action should be announced by the team in a manner > specific to the appropriate media where the measure applies. > The announcement should be visible to all users of that media, > and contains: > > - the name of the user to whom the measure applies, > > - the description and length of the measure applied. I think most of your proposal is reasonable, except for this point. I'd prefer that transparency be done in an anonymous way. I'm fine with the individuals being affected by a disciplinary action voluntarily choosing to allow this information to be divulged. However, if somebody is the subject of discipline they shouldn't be turned into public examples for a few reasons: 1. It makes them hard to rejoin the community after their ban/whatever is over, because now they have a public reputation. 2. It can damage somebody's public reputation, which could affect their ability to work on non-Gentoo projects or even for them to find employment. 3. Because of #2, it tends to force the subject of an action to defend their reputation in public, which then leads to arguments/etc. 4. Also because of #2, it may lead the subject of an action to defend their reputation using the courts, which can become an expensive proposition for all involved. 5. #3-4 will tend to render moot your suggestion to keep the details of infractions private, since it will probably tend to come out in all the arguing. Or, if it doesn't then all that argument doesn't actually serve any productive purpose since there are no facts involved. If the concern is abuse then let those who feel they were the victims of abuse be the ones to choose whether they make it a public issue. And by all means publish anonymous information about the volume of actions so that we can collectively judge whether it is happening too often/little/etc. --=20 Rich