From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8161381F3 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:59:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E9CFE08C2; Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:59:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ve0-f181.google.com (mail-ve0-f181.google.com [209.85.128.181]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89024E07A0 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:59:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ve0-f181.google.com with SMTP id db10so3097637veb.40 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2013 06:59:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=dTWz8D9DhjXJb6H1hjNtknHrJbxpYMl5aHA3oi8OVPE=; b=SRPIBtVH36ImbcF4RLsPqAhJ2gC6rn2qiezmhfpe75qDgE4y5uvBqO2ZAXQKKmisZx F0OL7DjVszKOOdAFcLpQ9pYVGLjhmZblNY2w96ntAtEL2VaXcDyyPexrZ2Dij++J37JK ls4wkqyXjlkcVz7YSNuxgApKam+0bs4Skih/Mi0HwSm8UuEnmBav/lzwt4kOudaAhedt zwBpYoLXXpl7TGwm12SS8CQW9pR+xF8jvwOkmZfEyMoNWxA9+yVjcftBVVhoSVLerDC+ YxO2OBD5OEWZtz8JbomUwpeTrOcbpNQ7vYEQCOqwfn2rs8HBfZ8UL4hdFvzi1Ia7v6gJ 2oPg== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.113.162 with SMTP id iz2mr709490vdb.0.1371563984490; Tue, 18 Jun 2013 06:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.73.3 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Jun 2013 06:59:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <51C064F2.6080902@gentoo.org> References: <20130616212124.GA29293@orbis-terrarum.net> <51C058CC.8030304@gentoo.org> <20130618141545.667d8dbb@googlemail.com> <51C064F2.6080902@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 09:59:44 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: BbBWU0W0kbFUpGt4x_cDxT77RVg Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo: growing pains & the future. From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Archives-Salt: ef704d87-824f-4e7a-a744-768460577b10 X-Archives-Hash: bb70e9dd6db35802b97c6475375fdcb7 On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Anthony G. Basile wrote: > I was going to caution against this too. I've had similar experiences on > college committees where faculty invited students to participate. They > really didn't understand the issues and wasted our time with non-sequitors. > It was probably equally frustrating to them because they tried but could not > contribute. I understand that some contributors are more active than some > devs, but how would the process differentiate? It might also be worth noting that anybody can sit in on a Council/Trustee meeting. The Trustees always have an open floor at the end of the meeting (typically to the sound of crickets). While the community cannot vote, I do consider them part of our mandate and we certainly listen, whether they email us or show up. My sense is that the Council is the same. So, if community members want to attend they should feel welcome to do so. Oh, and at least as far as the foundation is concerned non-dev members of the community can volunteer directly in foundation operations. Obviously for some roles like dealing with finances there is a certain level of trust that we would need to deal carefully with, but there is a lot that could be done with the foundation without any commit rights to anything. Non-developers can become Foundation members and vote for Trustees (or even be Trustees), and they can also even become officers (officers are appointed by the Trustees, not elected). The reality is that level of interest hasn't been high in this at least as far as the Foundation goes. The fact is that doing either job well involves a commitment. You really can't just "show up and vote." That might be what happens at the meetings, but 95% of the work involved in running the Foundation is, well, work - not talk (many thanks to Matthew/David!). I think an effective Council has to work similarly - the voting is really just the culmination of a lot of behind-the-scenes work, planning, negotiations, etc. Rich