From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2355138247 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 03:31:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A7A1E0AF2; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 03:31:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ve0-f173.google.com (mail-ve0-f173.google.com [209.85.128.173]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EB27E0AF1 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 03:31:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ve0-f173.google.com with SMTP id oz11so1940406veb.4 for ; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 19:31:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cIMxqvFIWDNJW++B1JBJzd4ezGcW/UcEXWrJs+JEKcI=; b=G/8JjQHD1v35KhAVQmS49pN32PY8Xs1XChCUF98gauqHOhim4js5hSIVzWPh/9qg6r yxTdBLDoAbGWdKV3IR0rcDP3lLiRQqWCFGyx3FSaUZVeiwb+k57f1qyfcCdpG5PIjO5J Ah8i5GHeyxtrf93ayQEW7UvvJ5qg2vzz2ueakI8Q88lgImJClKi3n21ap/ik16XOw43q yv87Qe1mSZh8Ghw8cCBjVhcbDrCGx1OED7xALOyvPNYBWU5X+XceFCUgUPmYVZTvQ4/o 3QI7vC4vDSzl0eoz7SUQ+EdBWbO5HGxAIJyYj2LSWAqW23Vo4figXxOlIx059zD7BQfd 4Ung== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.165.210 with SMTP id za18mr431351vdb.20.1389238315537; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 19:31:55 -0800 (PST) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.112.99 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 19:31:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20140109004039.08a7e814@TOMWIJ-GENTOO> References: <21192.25853.372116.249167@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <20140109004039.08a7e814@TOMWIJ-GENTOO> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 22:31:55 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: p1BBQ1k6x4j0xmh3jMePKH3C5MQ Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Sticking to GNOME 2 complicated after regressive GNOME 3 stabilization. (was: Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2014-01-14) From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 64d19357-1cd9-4dda-b978-278986fe34dd X-Archives-Hash: 97819c93cf0c85ba185c64ce06a1d275 On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: > > 1. Will removing GNOME 2 when it becomes unmaintainable upset users? > > (From what I've seen, yes, but what do you think?) I can practically guarantee it. I'm sure people still miss KDE3 and that transition was less dramatic (though clearly a painful one for older systems). However, I think your next question is the more relevant one. > > 2. What can we do to satisfy users that want to stick to GNOME 2? > > 2.a. Bring a fork like MATE to the Portage tree? > > 2.b. Split off GNOME 2 to a different SLOT, category or name? > Can we still do this at this point in time? I think the more important question isn't so much what we CAN do, but what are contributors WILLING to do. Honestly, I'd really be interested in feedback from the Gnome team about what their plans actually are. Sure, we can all bikeshed and maybe somebody will think of something they haven't already (though I'm skeptical). I think the right solution really depends on what the long-term plans are for the Gnome team, and how many resources are available to maintain a Gnome v2 solution (if any). If Gnome v2 is going away in a month or two and nobody is willing to do anything to keep it around, then it really isn't worth going through any trouble to try to change SLOTs or otherwise make the interim less painful. If Gnome v2 has a viable future in Gentoo then of course we should try to do something to make it more usable, and that won't be a problem because we'll have identified people to do the work. > > 3. How can we prevent this from happening in the future? It will boil down to volunteers one way or another. Again, I'd like to hear from the Gnome team because they may already have things under control. > > 4. Is a news item needed for this situation? To suggest alternatives? Again, that will depend on what the news actually is. > Rather than a t=EAte=96=E0=96t=EAte in #gentoo-desktop with one pro= ject > member or an user discussion on the forums, I am under the > impression that this needs much wider discussion than remaining > to be a hidden regression; this mail intents to help the Gentoo > GNOME project, it thus doesn't request a vote, just a discussion. Well, I'm sure we'll have plenty of discussion. However, before the bikeshedding starts in earnest I think we're best hearing from the Gnome team. I am not speaking for the whole Council, but my guess is that when this topic comes up next week about all we'll be able to do is say, "yup, it's a shame - anybody willing to actually do some work to change it?" But, let's see what the Gnome team has to say. They could have a plan already... Rich