From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F149B1382AC for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 12:04:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C956F9424C; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 12:04:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vk0-f68.google.com (mail-vk0-f68.google.com [209.85.213.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AECD94249 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 12:04:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vk0-f68.google.com with SMTP id k2so18412592vkb.0 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 05:04:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=BG216a6ebRP2z0LgylAw4zSXYn4t1+rZ9NvMBDuaH74=; b=sHFdeZ/EbCC1ar6OPsfe/HOk5KJ9zkrwAFPsj64qJS0cPq0CBjRLCC+ruy3gqzNpzT 2F6olT9ledQsJpkJUqgdSjMulcH5sooONIPDb8kpm301I6RFQSpqLoYC1e00hwZOacNW RXNrQPaAazk1Vp/ipmM0w7tjbiOQ/kw+8gSdgykIgilLlmryFzaQRhCkddGiiKgaiLmw Dr8ePmUtppMg5T7+tZPSciKgE9oy1S8XNEFyt8r50PCNh4wg0gHoBkky5+CZZZfua5eD QwGQTBNcSgmgVjQZyV3apsIq5lx3dQKa5+ARLmuBptgAomsV+iqLH09rx6k2+i1dvr28 n2vQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to; bh=BG216a6ebRP2z0LgylAw4zSXYn4t1+rZ9NvMBDuaH74=; b=UI51dAGUpm3ffY2g3oOYRx5opug4FcL8nJZQQxL9pdyb+W72DGKa4XEMgdptXgRJwA c5bB8eYGCJUxXMcA1/Ln1czwhyOUbFJ+cbjyuQME8ZP/gJG9fDm/PFhbPX3cTpUYwCcq WTb9LhLzOqnP6AG03CjmSEUOzzQVS1DvPw0BEkV/sMs8PWDGso2ysSJ+KJlgTDyPRgjR TN4KkFc8+yiuDgIo2ia1AHrF9cpbo8DZuQiIU9HdWi+DhNfXygeFTrkgXHUJ4dSdZ4q2 w58CJPg4zh90dI0ImCOHuHaGAt0q2LnYsNFboG0Ym3jeWfuPVr5/gHhyxfbcUZtH+q5l 30bg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tIpE76CXh79Gi9rptFxrNHG0MebF2gc07/N+HWauQ5JFa3S68ptHnrTcBU50OnVfF9fPEbIVLP+EzO/zA== X-Received: by 10.176.64.37 with SMTP id h34mr4672535uad.112.1466337887281; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 05:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.103.70.155 with HTTP; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 05:04:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <156538ad-1062-635d-0c03-d245d2be492f@gentoo.org> References: <3d8197f7-7fb0-0d61-ec39-44a0789bce2f@gentoo.org> <20160614215034.2e335a3a.mgorny@gentoo.org> <1466266798.10506.14.camel@gentoo.org> <737b511f-3fc5-9d4d-288d-3fa0cb9681c8@gentoo.org> <156538ad-1062-635d-0c03-d245d2be492f@gentoo.org> From: Rich Freeman Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 08:04:45 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: T5Eesrvpn6WP2mkncCagJtEyDms Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo Council 2016 / 2017 election To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Archives-Salt: 4177ea67-0fb9-4c3b-a40a-eb188fd2e91b X-Archives-Hash: 2ee46d2625919ed2d3efae85ce3cdbf3 On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Daniel Campbell wrote: > > So I guess maybe our protracted discussions and "slowness" is a good thing. > Do we REALLY have protracted discussions? I guess it is all relative, but a typical Gentoo debate over some big change seems to last a week if whoever is pushing the proposal is actually moving forward actively. Either a consensus forms or it doesn't. If there is consensus they actually can move forward without Council approval, though some choose to wait for the next Council meeting anyway. If there isn't consensus then we usually make a decision at the next meeting, unless the proposal just isn't quite ready yet. Usually if it isn't ready it is fairly obvious in the discussion. Hint: if you are sitting on this really great idea, waiting until a week before the Council meeting to broach the topic isn't ideal. Now, when somebody just throws an idea out there and maybe asks the Council if it is a good idea, but nobody is all that interested in implementing it, then obviously it will sit around forever. We all probably have lots of good ideas. There is no harm in bouncing them off the lists; maybe somebody will be inspired and implement it, or we'll come up with an even better idea. However, in the end we have to recognize that a volunteer distro is the result of the stuff people have bothered to actually implement. Then there are the discussions that just keep coming up, but they're usually just discussions. We can argue about whether A is better than B, but typically these discussions don't actually have any practical impact on how Gentoo is governed. 9/10 times we have some way to let A and B co-exist in the distro if anybody cares to put the work in, and whether one is better than the other certainly inspires passions but doesn't really impact repo policy. Now, if you want every idea to hit the ~arch tree two days after it is proposed, you're going to struggle to find any distro that can accommodate you. Reasonable QA depends on all the developers following the same set of rules, and good luck with that if the rules are changing faster than anybody can stay on top of, likely including the QA team. As annoying as talking about changes are, we talk about them because dealing with the aftermath of slowly working them out in production is far worse. Maybe I'm just out of touch (in which case somebody should cluebat me with some examples), but I feel like protracted discussions are something that we haven't really had in a while, at least not on technical matters. -- Rich