[gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[grozin]

https://itsfoss.com/microsoft-github/

Does this influence Gentoo GitHun usage?

Andrey

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Michał Górny]

W dniu pon, 04.06.2018 o godzinie 19∶47 +0700, użytkownik
grozin@gentoo.org napisał:
> https://itsfoss.com/microsoft-github/
> 
> Does this influence Gentoo GitHun usage?
> 

As far as I'm aware, our Bylaws, Social Contract etc. don't say anything
about having to hate Microsoft.

Gentoo should continue to support users via GitHub as long as users are
willing to contribute this way, and there are developers who wish to
support them.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Francesco Riosa]

Il 04/06/2018 15:07, Michał Górny ha scritto:
> W dniu pon, 04.06.2018 o godzinie 19∶47 +0700, użytkownik
> grozin@gentoo.org napisał:
>> https://itsfoss.com/microsoft-github/
>>
>> Does this influence Gentoo GitHun usage?
>>
> As far as I'm aware, our Bylaws, Social Contract etc. don't say anything
> about having to hate Microsoft.
>
> Gentoo should continue to support users via GitHub as long as users are
> willing to contribute this way, and there are developers who wish to
> support them.
In case the need arise, I'm offering to host a 3rd party git
infrastructure, storage and cpu power are available, what it's needed is
an in depth analysis of how it should be built.

To avoid adding load to infra jobs this should be a totally external
project, this also mean there will be no real benefit comparing it to
current github usage, i.e. all the "pull requests" will need to be
managed by gentoo developers which will have some kind of access to the
server.

Let me know if there is interest

Francesco Riosa

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Michał Górny]

W dniu pon, 04.06.2018 o godzinie 15∶07 +0200, użytkownik Michał Górny
napisał:
> W dniu pon, 04.06.2018 o godzinie 19∶47 +0700, użytkownik
> grozin@gentoo.org napisał:
> > https://itsfoss.com/microsoft-github/
> > 
> > Does this influence Gentoo GitHun usage?
> > 
> 
> As far as I'm aware, our Bylaws, Social Contract etc. don't say anything
> about having to hate Microsoft.
> 
> Gentoo should continue to support users via GitHub as long as users are
> willing to contribute this way, and there are developers who wish to
> support them.
> 

Oh, I should have mentioned: as long as there are no major ToS changes
or other events that would meaningfully affect our use of their
services.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[R0b0t1]

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> W dniu pon, 04.06.2018 o godzinie 15∶07 +0200, użytkownik Michał Górny
> napisał:
>> W dniu pon, 04.06.2018 o godzinie 19∶47 +0700, użytkownik
>> grozin@gentoo.org napisał:
>> > https://itsfoss.com/microsoft-github/
>> >
>> > Does this influence Gentoo GitHun usage?
>> >
>>
>> As far as I'm aware, our Bylaws, Social Contract etc. don't say anything
>> about having to hate Microsoft.
>>
>> Gentoo should continue to support users via GitHub as long as users are
>> willing to contribute this way, and there are developers who wish to
>> support them.
>>
>
> Oh, I should have mentioned: as long as there are no major ToS changes
> or other events that would meaningfully affect our use of their
> services.
>

That is exactly what people are expecting, but more in the way of
feature changes or a lack of development on integration with open
source technologies.

For anyone interested, here is a fairly comprehensive comparison of
self hosting options: https://docs.gitea.io/en-us/comparison/

It is likely gitea is the best.

Cheers,
     R0b0t1

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Anthony G. Basile]

On 6/4/18 12:25 PM, R0b0t1 wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> W dniu pon, 04.06.2018 o godzinie 15∶07 +0200, użytkownik Michał Górny
>> napisał:
>>> W dniu pon, 04.06.2018 o godzinie 19∶47 +0700, użytkownik
>>> grozin@gentoo.org napisał:
>>>> https://itsfoss.com/microsoft-github/
>>>>
>>>> Does this influence Gentoo GitHun usage?
>>>>
>>>
>>> As far as I'm aware, our Bylaws, Social Contract etc. don't say anything
>>> about having to hate Microsoft.
>>>
>>> Gentoo should continue to support users via GitHub as long as users are
>>> willing to contribute this way, and there are developers who wish to
>>> support them.
>>>
>>
>> Oh, I should have mentioned: as long as there are no major ToS changes
>> or other events that would meaningfully affect our use of their
>> services.
>>
> 
> That is exactly what people are expecting, but more in the way of
> feature changes or a lack of development on integration with open
> source technologies.
> 
> For anyone interested, here is a fairly comprehensive comparison of
> self hosting options: https://docs.gitea.io/en-us/comparison/
> 
> It is likely gitea is the best.
> 
> Cheers,
>      R0b0t1
> 

When github was first introduced to Gentoo, Michal and I argued quite a
bit about it.  My concern was data lock in.  There is now a lot of
Gentoo history in our repos and their issue tracker on github.  I don't
hate Microsoft, but I don't trust them.  I think we should think of some
way to be able to "bring that data home"  in case the TOS does change
drastically --- not just the git repos, but the bug reports too.  I'm
not sure how to do the latter.

--Tony

-- 
Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D.
Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened]
E-Mail    : blueness@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP  : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB  DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA
GnuPG ID  : F52D4BBA

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Matthew Thode]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1931 bytes --]

On 18-06-04 12:37:52, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
> On 6/4/18 12:25 PM, R0b0t1 wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >> W dniu pon, 04.06.2018 o godzinie 15∶07 +0200, użytkownik Michał Górny
> >> napisał:
> >>> W dniu pon, 04.06.2018 o godzinie 19∶47 +0700, użytkownik
> >>> grozin@gentoo.org napisał:
> >>>> https://itsfoss.com/microsoft-github/
> >>>>
> >>>> Does this influence Gentoo GitHun usage?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> As far as I'm aware, our Bylaws, Social Contract etc. don't say anything
> >>> about having to hate Microsoft.
> >>>
> >>> Gentoo should continue to support users via GitHub as long as users are
> >>> willing to contribute this way, and there are developers who wish to
> >>> support them.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Oh, I should have mentioned: as long as there are no major ToS changes
> >> or other events that would meaningfully affect our use of their
> >> services.
> >>
> > 
> > That is exactly what people are expecting, but more in the way of
> > feature changes or a lack of development on integration with open
> > source technologies.
> > 
> > For anyone interested, here is a fairly comprehensive comparison of
> > self hosting options: https://docs.gitea.io/en-us/comparison/
> > 
> > It is likely gitea is the best.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> >      R0b0t1
> > 
> 
> When github was first introduced to Gentoo, Michal and I argued quite a
> bit about it.  My concern was data lock in.  There is now a lot of
> Gentoo history in our repos and their issue tracker on github.  I don't
> hate Microsoft, but I don't trust them.  I think we should think of some
> way to be able to "bring that data home"  in case the TOS does change
> drastically --- not just the git repos, but the bug reports too.  I'm
> not sure how to do the latter.
> 

GDPR helps us here I think.

-- 
Matthew Thode (prometheanfire)

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Ulrich Mueller]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 754 bytes --]

>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018, Matthew Thode wrote:

> On 18-06-04 12:37:52, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
>> When github was first introduced to Gentoo, Michal and I argued
>> quite a bit about it.  My concern was data lock in.  There is now
>> a lot of Gentoo history in our repos and their issue tracker on
>> github.  I don't hate Microsoft, but I don't trust them.  I think
>> we should think of some way to be able to "bring that data home"
>> in case the TOS does change drastically --- not just the git repos,
>> but the bug reports too.  I'm not sure how to do the latter.

> GDPR helps us here I think.

Are you thinking of Article 20 (data portability)? IIUC it applies
only to personal data, and I doubt that bug reports would qualify
as that.

Ulrich

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Matthew Thode]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 896 bytes --]

On 18-06-04 21:36:46, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
> >>>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018, Matthew Thode wrote:
> 
> > On 18-06-04 12:37:52, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
> >> When github was first introduced to Gentoo, Michal and I argued
> >> quite a bit about it.  My concern was data lock in.  There is now
> >> a lot of Gentoo history in our repos and their issue tracker on
> >> github.  I don't hate Microsoft, but I don't trust them.  I think
> >> we should think of some way to be able to "bring that data home"
> >> in case the TOS does change drastically --- not just the git repos,
> >> but the bug reports too.  I'm not sure how to do the latter.
> 
> > GDPR helps us here I think.
> 
> Are you thinking of Article 20 (data portability)? IIUC it applies
> only to personal data, and I doubt that bug reports would qualify
> as that.
> 

ah, k then

-- 
Matthew Thode (prometheanfire)

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Thomas Deutschmann]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 440 bytes --]

FYI: You can access and therefore export all GitHub data via their API
like https://api.github.com/repos/gentoo/gentoo/issues

Maybe it is a good idea to do that on regular basis to have a backup
just in case something unexpected happens and the whole world tries to
export their data from GitHub at the same time...


-- 
Regards,
Thomas Deutschmann / Gentoo Linux Developer
C4DD 695F A713 8F24 2AA1 5638 5849 7EE5 1D5D 74A5


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 981 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 12:37 PM Anthony G. Basile <blueness@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> not just the git repos, but the bug reports too.  I'm
> not sure how to do the latter.
>

If somebody created a distributed bug tracker that would help a great
deal here.  The git side is pretty trivial - anybody can just do a
clone and they have it all.

Bug trackers are still in the dark ages, IMO.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[R0b0t1]

On Monday, June 4, 2018, Matthias Maier <tamiko@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun  4, 2018, at 11:25 CDT, R0b0t1 <r030t1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For anyone interested, here is a fairly comprehensive comparison of
>> self hosting options: https://docs.gitea.io/en-us/comparison/
>>
>> It is likely gitea is the best.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>      R0b0t1
>
>
> On Mon, Jun  4, 2018, at 09:56 CDT, Francesco Riosa <vivo75@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In case the need arise, I'm offering to host a 3rd party git
>> infrastructure, storage and cpu power are available, what it's needed is
>> an in depth analysis of how it should be built.
>>
>> To avoid adding load to infra jobs this should be a totally external
>> project, this also mean there will be no real benefit comparing it to
>> current github usage, i.e. all the "pull requests" will need to be
>> managed by gentoo developers which will have some kind of access to the
>> server.
>>
>> Let me know if there is interest
>>
>> Francesco Riosa
>
>
> To answer your two e-mails:
>
>
> We host our critical development infrastructure (including gitolite,
> master mirror, etc.) exclusively on our own servers under our control.
>
> The mirror we provide on github is merely a convenience tool - we do
> this because we want to enable github users an easy path for sharing
> contributions (i.e. pull requests). The point here is that we chose
> github because of its 30 million users (and the fact that nearly
> everyone who potentially contributes already has a github account).
>
> Talking about alternatives is completely missing the mark.
>

I am aware that the GitHub repositories are mirrors. The reason their
maintenance is tolerated (I assume) is because they provide a web
interface for contributors. The skin over Git is why the 30 million
users are there in the first place.

There is also e.g. GitLab if the use of preexisting accounts is
desirable, but it seems the bigger benefit would be issue tracking and
the online PR interface. Those are obtainable with any number of
systems in a format similar to GitHub.


On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 12:37 PM Anthony G. Basile <blueness@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>
>> not just the git repos, but the bug reports too.  I'm
>> not sure how to do the latter.
>>
>
> If somebody created a distributed bug tracker that would help a great
> deal here.  The git side is pretty trivial - anybody can just do a
> clone and they have it all.
>
> Bug trackers are still in the dark ages, IMO.
>

Classical bug trackers do not integrate closely with source control
systems. GitHub and systems which copy it do, some also adding
documentation management in the same package.

I have also recommended RedMine. There is less git integration
(thought it still exists and is useful) but more project management
features (Gantt charts, feature planning, completion tracking, and so
on).

It really seems like the motivation to try something else is what is
missing. That is fine, time is short. But if the main developers and
project leaders are going to do nothing and prevent everyone else from
helping eventually help will dry up. Sometimes the project dies
completely and the world is worse off. Other times gitea splits off of
gog and work continues.

Cheers,
    R0b0t1

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Alexey Shvetsov]

Rich Freeman писал 04-06-2018 20:07:
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 12:37 PM Anthony G. Basile <blueness@gentoo.org> 
> wrote:
>> 
>> not just the git repos, but the bug reports too.  I'm
>> not sure how to do the latter.
>> 
> 
> If somebody created a distributed bug tracker that would help a great
> deal here.  The git side is pretty trivial - anybody can just do a
> clone and they have it all.
> 
> Bug trackers are still in the dark ages, IMO.


There are projects like turingnote.io

-- 
Best Regards,
Alexey 'Alexxy' Shvetsov
Best Regards,
Alexey 'Alexxy' Shvetsov, PhD
Department of Molecular and Radiation Biophysics
FSBI Petersburg Nuclear Physics Institute, NRC Kurchatov Institute,
Leningrad region, Gatchina, Russia
Gentoo Team Ru
Gentoo Linux Dev
mailto:alexxyum@gmail.com
mailto:alexxy@gentoo.org
mailto:alexxy@omrb.pnpi.spb.ru

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 7:08 AM Alexey Shvetsov <alexxy@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> Rich Freeman писал 04-06-2018 20:07:
> >
> > If somebody created a distributed bug tracker that would help a great
> > deal here.  The git side is pretty trivial - anybody can just do a
> > clone and they have it all.
> >
> > Bug trackers are still in the dark ages, IMO.
>
> There are projects like turingnote.io
>

Is that a distributed bug tracker?  All that URL gives me is a website
that wants me to create an account, with no hint of what it even is.
Where can I download the source?

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Richard Yao]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2290 bytes --]



> On Jun 4, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Anthony G. Basile <blueness@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 6/4/18 12:25 PM, R0b0t1 wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>> W dniu pon, 04.06.2018 o godzinie 15∶07 +0200, użytkownik Michał Górny
>>> napisał:
>>>> W dniu pon, 04.06.2018 o godzinie 19∶47 +0700, użytkownik
>>>> grozin@gentoo.org napisał:
>>>>> https://itsfoss.com/microsoft-github/
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does this influence Gentoo GitHun usage?
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> As far as I'm aware, our Bylaws, Social Contract etc. don't say anything
>>>> about having to hate Microsoft.
>>>> 
>>>> Gentoo should continue to support users via GitHub as long as users are
>>>> willing to contribute this way, and there are developers who wish to
>>>> support them.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Oh, I should have mentioned: as long as there are no major ToS changes
>>> or other events that would meaningfully affect our use of their
>>> services.
>>> 
>> 
>> That is exactly what people are expecting, but more in the way of
>> feature changes or a lack of development on integration with open
>> source technologies.
>> 
>> For anyone interested, here is a fairly comprehensive comparison of
>> self hosting options: https://docs.gitea.io/en-us/comparison/
>> 
>> It is likely gitea is the best.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>>     R0b0t1
>> 
> 
> When github was first introduced to Gentoo, Michal and I argued quite a
> bit about it.  My concern was data lock in.  There is now a lot of
> Gentoo history in our repos and their issue tracker on github.  I don't
> hate Microsoft, but I don't trust them.  I think we should think of some
> way to be able to "bring that data home"  in case the TOS does change
> drastically --- not just the git repos, but the bug reports too.  I'm
> not sure how to do the latter.

GitLab claims to support importing all of that:

https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/import/github.html

It is bring your own infrastructure though. We could probably use OSUOSL for hosting,
> 
> --Tony
> 
> -- 
> Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D.
> Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened]
> E-Mail    : blueness@gentoo.org
> GnuPG FP  : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB  DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA
> GnuPG ID  : F52D4BBA
> 

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 6395 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Matthias Maier]

On Mon, Jun  4, 2018, at 11:25 CDT, R0b0t1 <r030t1@gmail.com> wrote:

> For anyone interested, here is a fairly comprehensive comparison of
> self hosting options: https://docs.gitea.io/en-us/comparison/
>
> It is likely gitea is the best.
>
> Cheers,
>      R0b0t1


On Mon, Jun  4, 2018, at 09:56 CDT, Francesco Riosa <vivo75@gmail.com> wrote:

> In case the need arise, I'm offering to host a 3rd party git
> infrastructure, storage and cpu power are available, what it's needed is
> an in depth analysis of how it should be built.
>
> To avoid adding load to infra jobs this should be a totally external
> project, this also mean there will be no real benefit comparing it to
> current github usage, i.e. all the "pull requests" will need to be
> managed by gentoo developers which will have some kind of access to the
> server.
>
> Let me know if there is interest
>
> Francesco Riosa


To answer your two e-mails:


We host our critical development infrastructure (including gitolite,
master mirror, etc.) exclusively on our own servers under our control.

The mirror we provide on github is merely a convenience tool - we do
this because we want to enable github users an easy path for sharing
contributions (i.e. pull requests). The point here is that we chose
github because of its 30 million users (and the fact that nearly
everyone who potentially contributes already has a github account).

Talking about alternatives is completely missing the mark.

Best,
Matthias