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From: Rich Freeman <rich@thefreemanclan.net>
To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Support for Seperate /usr
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 19:26:16 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAGfcS_mCPFfCUuCEWA-wD=rhu8Jxw+7msMTvLQ8PJQ8pVxFp_A@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <201308012342.44492.dilfridge@gentoo.org>

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Andreas K. Huettel <dilfridge@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 1. August 2013, 23:16:26 schrieb Rich Freeman:
>>
>> I do favor the dropping of support for separate /usr without an early
>> boot workaround.  I just don't think the council should actually step
>> in until somebody needs us to, or as part of some larger plan.  If the
>> base-system maintainers have things under control, better to let them
>> handle it.
>>
>
> 1) I have some doubts that this is really "under control". Maybe someone from
> base-system should comment how well booting with separate usr AND without
> early boot mechanism works. (That's also where Diego's blog posts come in.)

To clarify - I mean that things are under control in the sense that
nobody on base-system besides williamh seems to really care about
having the decision clarified.  I agree completely with Diego's
assessment/etc.  Today a system with a separate /usr and no
initramfs/etc generally works, but sometimes does not.

>
> 2) The main difficulty is that last council decided "something" and everyone
> has a different opinion on what was actually decided.

The thing is that I've yet to see any actual difficulty come up.  If
the udev team moved everything to /usr and there was an uproar and QA
told them that they consider it a violation, then I'd cal that an
actual difficulty (in which case I'd tell the udev team that they
don't have to worry about it as long as they don't break
genkernel/dracut/busybox/whatever).

>
> 3) If things are not "under control", no council decision will magically fix
> that.

I mainly advocate laissez faire on this issue, so from my standpoint
there really is nothing to fix unless some maintainer is being given a
hard time.  That is something the council definitely can fix, because
devrel isn't going to counter a council decision, and even if they did
they can be appealed - the rest is just hot air.

>
> 4) We should also remind ourselves that the general Gentoo philosophy used to
> be "follow upstream as much as possible". Given the general direction in Linux
> outside Gentoo, more and more software may migrate into /usr. Do we want to
> step up patching?

Yup.  If we're going to patch it seems like a better move to just
patch things the other way and do the /usr move so that there is at
least some kind of larger benefit from the change.  That's why I think
the whole "is separate /usr without an early boot mechanism a
supported configuration" bit is a bit of a sideshow.  I'm happy to
settle it if somebody wants us to, but if nobody cares then we're
basically making policy for the sake of having policy.  I'd rather see
us look beyond this and decide where we want to be.  To me the only
logical choices are FHS or /usr move, and to strictly follow the
former is slowly turning into just sticking everything in / -
something that shouldn't make sense to anybody.

Bottom line is that I'm happy to render a clear decision if anybody
really will benefit from having one, but I think the bigger picture is
that we should focus less on what we don't support and focus more on
what we do support.

Rich


  reply	other threads:[~2013-08-01 23:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 10+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-08-01 21:16 [gentoo-project] Support for Seperate /usr Rich Freeman
2013-08-01 21:42 ` Andreas K. Huettel
2013-08-01 23:26   ` Rich Freeman [this message]
2013-08-01 22:49 ` William Hubbs
2013-08-01 22:57   ` Samuli Suominen
2013-08-01 23:15   ` Rich Freeman
2013-08-02  3:04     ` Dale
2013-08-02  8:15       ` Michał Górny
2013-08-06  0:32 ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-08-11 14:59 ` [gentoo-project] Support for separate /usr Ulrich Mueller

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