From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BF06138334 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:27:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29F5AE0D1C; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:27:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pg1-f175.google.com (mail-pg1-f175.google.com [209.85.215.175]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBCB0E0D1B for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:27:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pg1-f175.google.com with SMTP id g189so9096438pgc.5 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 10:27:42 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=1ZvK+f0KDvMKnPLFo535rCzonS7xrYJWPMf4TjuMOYs=; b=V/Xqcb+eNXCxn93nXPn69VKvhgucGH0TsbHtTMOYiu371rRmGdiPWrsA0YWa1gG0AF lkN8nNvfpuA0B0TRU/U4qBiqDZfg5oP+va4VIBTzxFkdTrZAHWyPoENrccC0xO2URRT4 BHdXCZRbcnd6em3takDuP9IfTbNuIoNTjd09aT3cbhUS4sN1ovN+321O42mDivRGFSJI qyfrMoT1I4timhaWuboEaccOItW6TT5AhZYylOwr0LPEGTVGj7iYlRTTKqj/pCoRXjbj 74h75KytxbkL208O1iN3wzpdD1J8CEz49IyvRjN7jgMdl+fqSBkQkqhfN+HKT0Y4shjn ZrRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukeDFyRuWgoGU4fDElTG3NF2ulp/uNHoN7DkRXcQuuqNn7SBWhx2 CuD9MCllVIOH02H5XRQZ3Mkc+7pemLEfxRHH/wUa1oA/ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7tMaFUu0/r7Fkp/esMn/tA7QVdjgS8o07PWRBwmRaMI7MxQ4W+ofcnX4zdrNNcGMVllXg4apUGabywEKO2uk4= X-Received: by 2002:a63:104d:: with SMTP id 13mr24760964pgq.303.1548786461350; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 10:27:41 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Rich Freeman Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 13:27:30 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] What should the default acceptable licenses be? To: gentoo-project Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Archives-Salt: e6b2bcf9-f130-4126-ac89-22f27c6ee1b6 X-Archives-Hash: 13bf2ffb76dea63136fb618d96cc13ca On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 12:53 PM Alec Warner wrote: > > 1) Do the users not currently have a choice today? (e.g. do we need to populate the @nonfree license set?) Since licenses are excluded by default I'm not sure if a non-free explicit set helps much, but there is an EULA license group. > I think if there isn't a @free-only (or -@nonfree) item we should do the work to make that possible (so ensure 1 is implemented.) We have plenty of options here: FREE-SOFTWARE FREE BINARY-REDISTRIBUTABLE GPL-COMPATIBLE FSF-APPROVED OSI-APPROVED MISC-FREE (Just a selection.) Everything is in profiles/license_groups > I think a @free default fits right into the Gentoo Social Contract and while I oppose it on a personal basis (because I think the result harms users) I do support it on an organizational basis. Not depending on non-free software sounds nice in principle until you start talking about all those little things that make physical hardware actually work. If it were a practical option I'd be all for it. Otherwise this is a choice that really only exists on paper. For seasoned users it isn't that big a deal since we mostly have our own make.conf files and so on. I just am concerned it will be hard for users. What will we put in the handbook? Will we want to encourage them to use a config that we know will often not work, or will we be up-front that our defaults break most of the time in the real world? If we have a default that often causes problems we should probably be pretty up-front about that in the handbook so that users don't have to go to #gentoo when their system breaks to find out that nobody actually follows the official docs/defaults. Honestly, though, Gentoo has for its entire history been about practical defaults, and not about FSF/OSI purity. We certainly try not to depend on non-free software as we say in our social contract, but these issues are all way upstream of Gentoo. IMO we ought to be finding a practical balance here and not be driven entirely by ideology. Personally I'm a pretty big FSF fan in general, but I think a distro needs to be practical first, with the option for purity, but of course complying with redistribution restrictions. -- Rich