From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86F061382C5 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2018 18:34:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3ECABE0A9A; Mon, 12 Feb 2018 18:34:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pl0-x22b.google.com (mail-pl0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED175E0A7F for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2018 18:34:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pl0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id v3so5395260plg.3 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2018 10:34:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=cIdiwMz25Stqu3iojbm6eTl+RQ/MPBrP5ACIcgz391c=; b=G/UOnw0q19R7BeH3OKsqHGj8PGpeIHa9GkyqEeCRJbsllRl8kZWtVi8nshNgXBLS7w aZiKgDGQnu+d9BjRg5mB4dTri7dxAFx27YoW0qH/ruy0fF3pho81nkn1Dg4j97Cz1XdY TqV6b+t1pGl947jC/1PrC36fYbbZyUTEZHjIn6KPEQgfZgC1bnfeOhQGYKq6ZhaAHSTQ S7prPhn7MxsOVTGtzBw3bhd5+1IMTwgvFfjGyYxFqe12ZKJeqVygK2QrLnonPqtV/Ekm WDZTSbduq88VZu/Foe7rkMdxTWE8vE3nyniPA/E6LoHm4PgS5wDXh9G/GoBokEZBoOpy 9AUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to; bh=cIdiwMz25Stqu3iojbm6eTl+RQ/MPBrP5ACIcgz391c=; b=ixOUEfoiQIWQI2jazo8fJNxgfxVQCDJGtljZ7s20NevmKFX3FPuR8Dux/e05vRORpo JBDl9ENx+mQbgayWeWgOTkg40FnMXjYN4uUYb26wFDYKjPdfzRCeIY7vI0ZjUqxBBaIe jvsPndTLP873HgrCYYyhaEJ+SxFErYtEa7vl/mg1edGD3r//QWOgWd6VEIwB250Zc74Z LBkKUFSFyK1irF3N8XqlNEkaulXk25uS3u+kYGwIqZAkHUpAENJLT8hdXUsKiKz/GEDw yeBXAvJ0w9oqMk0YF3LmeWWn9R1Mfi3nwNUnzv/WlFPHsjnsgpfjDJ2xuIsgqZZ8sn0H xcBg== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPB92qF5RmVd51YAV/EGjaUJOXWQgqUzy0NZIVoX6STwULxU4JXU I6ohNV+Zx4PEU1XxDR6o8k4Ksp5QEU14rxznAKawOg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226pTp/+jA9LYit39H2t8zSlQq0JppwuIETsAlwdOclusa3FcfpUjyK9Gn+Z4C+5QV+rkprELn/ew02hemshyis= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:33c1:: with SMTP id b59-v6mr11956636plc.111.1518460487386; Mon, 12 Feb 2018 10:34:47 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.100.134.1 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Feb 2018 10:34:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20180211224234.GB6747@linux1.home> <20180212165506.GA23201@whubbs1.gaikai.biz> From: Rich Freeman Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:34:46 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: bduuK3WzO9X9nj6Z4i7vDaUfdKE Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] rfc: council members and appeals To: gentoo-project Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Archives-Salt: 9c7efd69-351d-4517-9a73-786f42e44665 X-Archives-Hash: 70c09e8f5f3995ea53d07fe9adb9cdf1 On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:58 PM, Daniel Robbins wrote: > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:46 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: >> >> >> "a situation in which a person is in a position to derive personal >> benefit from actions or decisions made in their official capacity" > > I think the definition in the world of Gentoo would be expanded to cover > non-financial benefit, since Gentoo is a very egalitarian organization > (unlike a for-profit company) and there is an expectation of impartiality. If somebody isn't impartial they shouldn't be involved in either a Comrel or Council decision. If they are impartial, then I don't see how the Comrel decision suddenly makes them not. Sure, it does make it less likely that an appeal will be overturned, but that is only a problem if the original decision was incorrect, and if the decision of the Council is correct by definition, then having more Council members casting their votes earlier would tend to impart correctness to the Comrel decision and not the other way around. > Also, in very few circumstances are the trustees or council voting on issues > that even have the potential for financial benefit. Honestly, this seems like saying that according to the best practices of most organizations Gentoo doesn't have an issue, therefore we need to create an issue where no issue would otherwise exist otherwise we don't have a problem to solve. > It wouldn't be binding but could be requested, and the council/trustees > could decide whether the request is legitimate. Again, if there is the > *perception* of a potential conflict of interest, that can be enough for > someone to abstain from voting because it strengthens the legitimacy of the > vote. In the last year or so it doesn't seem like we've had an issue with people not being able to voice concerns... But of course they should be free to do so. I just want to be careful because the standard should be what a reasonable person would perceive, not what somebody who is convinced that Gentoo is run by the Illuminati would perceive... :) IMO it seems like a majority of people voicing opinions here have non-mainstream opinions on this matter. I don't think this is healthy, but ultimately I guess the community gets to decide how much tinfoil to apply... -- Rich