From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 907FD1381F3 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 20:14:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4BE1DE086F; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 20:14:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vc0-f175.google.com (mail-vc0-f175.google.com [209.85.220.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B0CBE0784 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 20:14:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f175.google.com with SMTP id hr11so1199065vcb.34 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 13:14:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Wdc+Ks55wFSoMy89xRp0/nFG83Yb7+Uozt9lB3Y6RzE=; b=NR7cR5zBXqv2G3JtS2vEbqqPgD3X5Xwaw8vXamBKebIlJDTHCOfRmrFrroda7rhNYN NMJcDYKlHx8qzBDEv74/z2Fco0dZlPN+OFmViIi2+IiPfDSTxzC0LUkNCDyZDXoLb4ml koAgpJrLcYFnJr6hJVRIdXHKUtBwF+AovJWiqEC8V9P9nPIX9mQTCtm2c278L6wEelOO AQXjA5YwE5LqaxxbIt44fliCb4u3WhKbr9NZTTiIV7Jkp+3on8DZlcefCsHZeNdT3iq7 2qYu8YbaRwnc/Brw7GazkdUI1kfqt9tOfId4F9/9dJriYH/WL+5mI4xoviCB24QiDUpN yVQg== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.115.1 with SMTP id jk1mr2078949vdb.95.1371327257775; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 13:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.73.3 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 13:14:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130615200047.GA7798@linux1> References: <1371312507.2277.0@bluebottle> <20130615200047.GA7798@linux1> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 16:14:17 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: GF4S3RLSfUBTEqGoiXD8AAolAAk Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo as a team effort From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Archives-Salt: 88bda178-560d-4144-8863-a4d74315a033 X-Archives-Hash: 43de648ba2d05fa94090d0fe8794917f On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 4:00 PM, William Hubbs wrote: > This is a tough one. If the council does start to become more proactive, > there would need to be a way to guard against the council stepping into > a project and dictating how that project will do things without fully > understanding the implications of their decision. > Honestly, I think the solution to this is to make sure that the council is staffed with individuals who can be trusted not to do this. However, there really is no difference between a council that needs to have matters brought before it, and one which can act proactively. If ANYBODY can bring a matter to the council, then it will one way or another end up looking into anything it wants to. I think that issues are best solved by individuals first and foremost. However, it doesn't make sense to have battles going on for months where there simply isn't agreement. There are many situations where almost any decision is better than no decision (an example comes to mind but I won't bring it up as a distraction). However, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I do think the council should be a little more active. If council members have an opinion they can state it on the lists, and allow themselves to be engaged a little on it. Likewise, the council doesn't HAVE to wait until a meeting to make a decision, though if a matter can afford to wait doing so might be wise. Getting involved in discussion early isn't about fanning flames/etc, but it is about letting everybody know where they stand, and also letting arguments mature to a reasonable level before making a decision (rather than putting them on hold for a few weeks, and then restarting them when there is a request for more info). Also, council members can use their position to try to influence direction absent a formal decision, and that need not be on-list. One other thing - I don't intend to suggest that I'm not sympathetic to the concerns of individuals as well. I really hate that the online thing often tends to depersonalize everything. I just don't think we can operate in a state of perpetual paralysis either - we'll never reach 100% consensus on any decision. There isn't a single Gentoo developer I don't have respect for - all have given of their time and energy and we're all better for it. Rich