From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C44B61389E2 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 11:31:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0BD9FE09C4; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 11:31:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ie0-f176.google.com (mail-ie0-f176.google.com [209.85.223.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 826D4E09C3 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 11:31:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f176.google.com with SMTP id tr6so13381650ieb.21 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 03:31:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=9Gohv75lLF1ioWrovMJvXa9azHmzeDXXVFRlSCewkuE=; b=Z33l+hQqv4SuUrpbaRXC2IbMpZQ2h5hT8ZgJm6Ni7x3gh0wnUeccbLMFznbY2wMzeh 9hV9QweXMb1lbsPMtpkHaXgYUIsq3PoRuCPmqmQbajgM9f9BS0EjtO0G3I38Ki1kZnjA 1yFVhZpZND5tgR4pRe3P2n2nwuRJPkiNkt85drIO2VbCqrqgiLBkZUB5zC1ezQCdRv5s /jPbPBfBVdOU22E5Lm8fOuM3d8VZXz7gbLV9b/NXJ1BKf5g+zaornfhd7XdjsupQHwKd 8wjIgi3TRYkBiW26UybRQkH03232eisYOuqEiLsu497cE8pcqzfPCxyrVXgiwHN6oc52 qy6w== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.25.166 with SMTP id d6mr49437123igg.41.1419939064796; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 03:31:04 -0800 (PST) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.29.148 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 03:31:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141230082843.63a80978@googlemail.com> References: <201412271334.34252.dilfridge@gentoo.org> <549FECF3.2090101@gentoo.org> <54A1ACCD.6000907@gentoo.org> <54A23154.8010007@gentoo.org> <20141230082843.63a80978@googlemail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 06:31:04 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: XMkFl1VNS0TSERSsN3qx1nNrhV0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Council meeting 2015-01-13: call for agenda items From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Archives-Salt: 7b80cf9f-de80-4fe4-bed7-08d8c88bb171 X-Archives-Hash: e4f717eec35c36e80631b1437cca89e3 On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 3:28 AM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 00:00:04 -0500 > Dean Stephens wrote: >> On 12/29/14 15:06, Rich Freeman wrote: >> > I'll certainly agree that not everything needs a formal project. >> > However, if a project wants to have authority/autonomy beyond >> > anything-goes, then it should welcome members and elect a lead >> > regularly. >> > >> There is at least a defensible argument to be made that being able to >> reject applicants is more important to being able to maintain a >> coherent project than the often indicated duty to accept anyone who >> shows interest. > > But Gentoo is primarily about the Community, not the quality of the > product. Requiring technical ability discourages contributions, and a > lack of bugs decreases the volume of forum posts, so they are > poisonous to the Community. I'll leave it as an exercise to the casual reader of this thread to judge what kinds of behavior are poisonous to the community. In any case, if a project is actively rejecting applicants I'd say that this would make it far more alive than the typical Gentoo project from the complaints I've been hearing. Part of me suspects that we've gotten so good at ticking each other off that most of us just retreat into our private interests and just do what we want to do until we step on enough toes that we lose our commit rights. You can't have "quality of the product" if nobody is interested in actually working on a "product" as opposed to a few random components that can be used to build a product if people are willing to deal with the integration issues, especially when things like creating documentation apparently aren't essential to doing development, so it would just KILL us to have to create a wiki account. Since most of us don't have the time to completely build a self-contained Linux distro on our own, we're left with the apparently-unenviable task of working with other people to accomplish this. I'm all for making this as painless as possible, but I'm not entirely convinced that going along with pleas like "do I HAVE to read mailing lists" or "do I HAVE to let somebody co-maintain MY package or join MY team" or "why CAN'T I get into a revert-war with somebody who wants to add a feature to MY package that I don't personally use" is really going to lead to the sort of distro that any of us actually want to use. If dealing with this kind of stuff seems unpleasant to you, take some comfort in the fact that it isn't any more pleasant for the rest of us. :) -- Rich