From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBB4D138334 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 13:22:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D27BDE09D6; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 13:22:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pl1-f177.google.com (mail-pl1-f177.google.com [209.85.214.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92F15E09D4 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 13:22:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pl1-f177.google.com with SMTP id y6so1447435plt.1 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 06:22:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zLQ67bnb6ESauPte5CSMK/tUE1nkLx+YdMM54Mhl38w=; b=eJ7C6Aql4v1MODOtywiaNHLqWJL8WlIc0QQKuIgmcK6wtzgUjyn8s89AcO0TL8VORG bmICNnNMJi1uWM54mcPDs4Y7IhPcF9LV8b2uafYHQ/pV08sesV0yu6weR0nv7W3Zrbmu +Mxy1zvbVEQMGdwrPmVYRX9mdoLOs2wFq6rB4yTZmCv0wXJcAlzOK/TWChszNOqkSV1N cMn6qLpmQbj7TCvgQZuWDJbM4Aag5UvRoKeTm7clJRBL32+C12iR/WhcbW7ISSLt/1tO 24j2zYbgDwyw9oyMc49M95hMohlFx/A6hXB3dgd1HltTzyggDYLu0DXa1/jOa6+tggG2 MrJA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWC2gaKjI0v6qq9ji9+jTLAviCWBfBMU3VnyYUGzUZ5UempL9JG gadbWLLexPO1VjitTS1UHc7ZYdP2Rro4rdzZwBDaboxE X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyiNyB4fupMs/M5Bfm7nXdhe8DiDc/Phy6/OCZD8nIn2ZG7qCoQ1vwEiFbqiueNaj0UJbsD86QF6/j2gBtqNNU= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:7084:: with SMTP id z4mr42523809plk.305.1554902522093; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 06:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4bbfc34f-335f-5521-310a-b66ffd0d9a9a@gentoo.org> <5e30d658-80c8-b608-1505-dc08db3625bf@gentoo.org> <20190403174315.32615d3b9574571e3ed4a399@gentoo.org> <80ed2e482e96c96555bf4fd9331731c4c9ad0d7f.camel@gentoo.org> <232747ba-063c-821f-a66d-5f106ed2aa82@gentoo.org> <20190410062712.jvgec4vhpvvo2e6v@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: From: Rich Freeman Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 09:21:50 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] call for agenda items -- council meeting 2019-04-14 To: gentoo-project Cc: Ulrich Mueller , Gokturk Yuksek Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Archives-Salt: 39ef76e0-39f4-4152-9a3a-24c745e0fd70 X-Archives-Hash: c35cf3e86a29d3186fdd3873be100ca0 On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 8:47 AM Alec Warner wrote: > > I want to separate talking about things (which is happening on this > thread) and actually making and passing foundation motions (which > doesn't happen on this list, but does happen on bugzilla.) Alice is > in fact a board member (as am I!) and should be free to talk about > whatever she likes here. Talking about something is different than > "the trustees apparently once again abusing their power." Talking > about a concept, even a controversial one, is not an abuse of power; > its a free exchange of ideas. > ++ The same applies to mgorny making proposals which was the subject of a separate critique which doesn't need a separate reply. The Council/Trustees are fairly reasonable people for the most part which is why we all voted for them. You don't need to be fearful that they only listen to one person. mgorny just happens to make a lot of proposals, and most of them tend to be non-controversial so they get adopted. The ones that are more controversial, in my experience, tend to go through more change if they are accepted. Nobody needs to censor themselves if they're being constructive. Likewise, we can just voice our opinions and have some faith that those in charge will bother to read them so we don't need to get too worked up about it. I'll also note that in my experience many people tend to be more free with casual discussion than their decision-making. The fact that a Council/Trustee member talks about an idea doesn't mean that they're going to end up voting for that idea. I know I've talked out loud about things that I've ended up not supporting in the end - this is just how we collaborate and how good decisions get made. We don't want people so afraid of ridicule that they just keep their thoughts to themselves and just vote seemingly-randomly without the opportunity for input. -- Rich -- Rich