From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB461381F3 for ; Wed, 1 May 2013 17:35:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 38D89E090A; Wed, 1 May 2013 17:35:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ve0-f180.google.com (mail-ve0-f180.google.com [209.85.128.180]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83AD5E08C1 for ; Wed, 1 May 2013 17:35:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ve0-f180.google.com with SMTP id pb11so1394939veb.11 for ; Wed, 01 May 2013 10:35:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=uyLaEekOwBvAwcoS4j1c7XDEj0MrWC9zJbLL8HUdfyo=; b=VPze/ZFoLXYeXSrvJz4b7MjetA0vd6VWJpC2oyLmqYxKdctuRatZGCCK+6fCJXeL7G xHOpnhpqXLh6tNv8F3IeL0Qv1tctccMHj8UFE9W0KpY2Mk4sz8uU59cKKVGYCB+KDLRL tpIXYq2q+aCnYJn2aIaX9cAmWjwpm1BNfvibwyOYyPA4kgJnF5uGrpt8MEeFUh1T9EAC i/ZHvtfgZKeFv10rH42kJ5a6ARyvZ8QAH4+9UNBCYTRrwPm1BpMw5Ys7ndAniq35rwpJ /FrhehT8ZzKLgvBJsiTGKDPkaj+cQUpwth/7aaUdfVVGgu4cn23xRjcTUEiuuC0e1Ie/ HJ0Q== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.33.236 with SMTP id u12mr896828vdi.101.1367429725637; Wed, 01 May 2013 10:35:25 -0700 (PDT) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.168.4 with HTTP; Wed, 1 May 2013 10:35:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130501183021.2949cd49@googlemail.com> References: <517C03E8.7040406@gentoo.org> <5181325A.2030701@gentoo.org> <20130501162247.17bc7f11@googlemail.com> <20130501172802.0f9ef9ec@gentoo.org> <20130501163556.6ab95917@googlemail.com> <5181507F.5060602@gentoo.org> <20130501183021.2949cd49@googlemail.com> Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 13:35:25 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: JQwHZk2WQZqYHQEKc6Eczq2LOA8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2013-05-14 From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Archives-Salt: 1ec363ed-4da5-415a-a3cc-ac058afd37ad X-Archives-Hash: d23e2b797f4eac528f9dbd0d795efae7 On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > On Wed, 01 May 2013 10:27:27 -0700 > Zac Medico wrote: >> > It's necessary, and the way to convince developers is to stop >> > providing a nasty hack as a not-really-working alternative. >> >> As downstream packagers, do we or can we really expect to have that >> much influence of upstream developers? If the big binary distros are >> willing to package these things without complaints, then how likely >> is it that upstream developers will change their ways? > > Big binary distros already deal with this problem... Well, if you only support one version of every library and change them all in lockstep a few times a year, then this becomes a complete non-issue. However, if you're going to do that then a big part of the value that Gentoo creates is lost. Honestly, this seems a bit like hurting our users so that developers feel sorry for them and jump through hoops. We might as well threaten to kill kittens anytime the bug wrangler list goes over a certain threshold, or a GLSA stays open too long. Sure, I'd prefer a perfect world to a better world, but I'm not going to get a perfect world, so I'd prefer a better world to the one I live in today. Rich