From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CA613877A for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2014 12:31:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0071CE080A; Sun, 6 Jul 2014 12:31:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ve0-f181.google.com (mail-ve0-f181.google.com [209.85.128.181]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62F37E07ED for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2014 12:31:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ve0-f181.google.com with SMTP id db11so2960973veb.26 for ; Sun, 06 Jul 2014 05:31:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=xrcZP2cHS1Xb5C5BQv5m0eN4Mmd58PnnNOJbdZezIgg=; b=024Zzw0VnOXetcGacdfp2bu7Wpmu9IOqLuS7KoKLd6slI+QseusNvatAninSMYpJSr pCL/W8EH0bqUGKQvVbfAxHzdev+6keXbuKk8Ws9/4iGmUCbhuH+Mo6ZqfcK13r8MHDFQ n/BftxZ/SvZJ1F5MhS0cYEiKl2GEi/SuFHUxl00EcyaFqXXsG0RRdytmYtwVCj9TbFg6 3i56RDdbkTTexZqdSGj3ANBYVCN2pdh9CDM5DLH4Ui0iRFkgq77cRWAcs1dW/gzBLlWV zHIYTvOILlnIe4Hftp1vv4+6Aoxo3XeIBJJZLVpWoh5CUwE6AnfqXADWrEfpHk29aXyy pwIQ== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.198.67 with SMTP id ja3mr21453566vec.10.1404649914370; Sun, 06 Jul 2014 05:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.72.19 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Jul 2014 05:31:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1404647517.1888.0@NeddySeagoon_Static> References: <1404647517.1888.0@NeddySeagoon_Static> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2014 08:31:54 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: i7dEBPqjN4C7EEUZItBchX85Wf4 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo Council 2014 / 2015 election From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Archives-Salt: 54b8c5d2-f095-4ab3-8208-8b542f05b30f X-Archives-Hash: 6966c40e1b9ddfc2e4df383287d5676d On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Roy Bamford wrote: > > ... but Gentoo has had no leadership since the council was formed ... > or even since drobbins left the first time. I think you're confusing leadership with titles here. You can have an official project leader who doesn't do any leading, and you can have people doing leading without any title at all. I would not say that Gentoo has been entirely bereft of leadership. Look at where we are vs where we were in 2003. Do we really think that we'd have deployed PMS and migrated to newer EAPIs without SOME kind of leadership? Many individual leaders promoting small projects that collectively improve the distro is still leadership. > > The council is a technical disputes resolution body, that infers that > its forbidden to lead, since setting a direction (leadership) falls way > outside the councils terms of reference. Frankly, I think we can do better than that. Sure, if nothing else the Council can be a place to get a final vote on a dispute, but I think that Council members ought to be trying to influence the day-to-day direction of the distro. That isn't limited to participating in email threads - their influence can be behind the scenes, from taking the lead on projects, etc. When there is a problem, step up and contribute! > > Probably just as well, since you can't lead by committee. You just get > a mess like the EU. What you can't do is call passing resolutions leadership. As a committee the Council votes on resolutions that we all agree to follow. That is a necessary function of the Council, but it isn't really leadership. Council members can and should lead in other ways. And lots of people take on leadership roles in Gentoo without having any title at all. Most FOSS projects are meritocracies, and we're no different. When people see something good, they follow it. You can't have a leader by appointing a leader. At best you can assign a title to somebody who has already been doing the job. Putting a mantle on somebody who hasn't already been a leader just tends to lead to a lot of conflict. That is one of the things that works well with our project system. Devs self-assemble into small teams based on interest and they choose their own leaders. Generally the job of the Council as a committee is to stay out of their way, unless they're bumping into each other. Leadership in an organization like ours usually doesn't consist of issuing orders... Rich