From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: <gentoo-project+bounces-8594-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org>
Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80])
(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4DCE138334
for <garchives@archives.gentoo.org>; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 21:03:48 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 89EC9E086F;
Tue, 9 Apr 2019 21:03:47 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-oi1-x230.google.com (mail-oi1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::230])
(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4591CE07A7
for <gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org>; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 21:03:47 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-oi1-x230.google.com with SMTP id e5so14863258oii.0
for <gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org>; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 14:03:47 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to;
bh=RKd3jxwVO/eKpr1bl7eWsG/J0/wtFPaqknoR2rijksM=;
b=f9muqboy2cR8Mu0vqSMS43uLJR/q/i3nL9tnvko2/57yhQvETeevyJnBdMlcX+u8ZP
wrrFvcM+bcTm32yCYk/RoZG1uVMp6k1i3Lsh6JTCwC6cllKsVCZxHruC81oXdcsKJIWF
ihgvsq76hNPKkEV7P2lwy7RUVkYadfSaztJUuSQnLQOaYsDnXAoCWd2wIQ72s6LiCqTw
cwCYVdF9vVNST5PZGICUihduBlhM8R9nw/g9n/Bs4b1LMN2cCvqSaW4BFPa07+0BtKB3
J7qyc3xsa070E8V9Z8kWKxrXkmjNBQiOo3htyud6FGw8eLrXQvXZg6gOTetNVS4TVRl4
UnGg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date
:message-id:subject:to;
bh=RKd3jxwVO/eKpr1bl7eWsG/J0/wtFPaqknoR2rijksM=;
b=SZ+1IVodHgMm4F/02rQqh9oRSZN7MffeIM2R5NVObEgVoU672UPgzsyzlaKI1c341p
EoBU9jFcC2trNxEHGc3SkD65V1NNNB9VYYWMzCs04QwkSK5iCzuRGA+BOwdazIGwTYBM
8DMbsx+yr7D0FMRZNLQ9eDcR3q531IOjtMhHS51yIqgACexVMhSDqT18DQXYTY6NYrdF
rTInSIeUd1qgBxhsRS5q0zzc6foObcTDA6XAUFOT29HJxB5a445I/tcE47vE0gw87/UX
xTpmSg3bL4N4jKZysDWo5nTijKJ6zfORxAoNgKEYQvVsLuKzQYZaYseApfMQCb2J0b1l
vbzg==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXgQ/kYqvl9EuJvHZ8uMObVU5jghGGS65Z3gBQOTf2stdFI/M81
RtfJeehT34behzrUfffVESZsgZuaPPOlyYVQdmFaEw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyh/F6XWPq95YsZRYbMFxKxcQ22oVOWPhl8J9DgihM6mtyw5QHvoH4k0Hfy4ARFvnIW0QOFAimLMjRT8AMjueU=
X-Received: by 2002:aca:d7c6:: with SMTP id o189mr291927oig.2.1554843825887;
Tue, 09 Apr 2019 14:03:45 -0700 (PDT)
Precedence: bulk
List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-project+help@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-project+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-project+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list <gentoo-project.gentoo.org>
X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org
Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org
X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <20190401032055.GA9497@linux1.home> <4bbfc34f-335f-5521-310a-b66ffd0d9a9a@gentoo.org>
<CAAr7Pr8EYMyFzuj07MnmYPJYLSPy18jBCMF8GewfMcuTMFnHfg@mail.gmail.com>
<5e30d658-80c8-b608-1505-dc08db3625bf@gentoo.org> <20190403174315.32615d3b9574571e3ed4a399@gentoo.org>
<80ed2e482e96c96555bf4fd9331731c4c9ad0d7f.camel@gentoo.org>
<a03ade84-8c7a-5ebc-b42e-9062684c3313@gentoo.org> <CAAr7Pr_kp3oROSML8+sU-zTUmHrRboz_5=xoi8PYSEo0Jfox6A@mail.gmail.com>
<CAGfcS_kJPa96GwpTaUnDvfxsoe4=MQF7ZFkGQ=Q_qz974w9-PA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAGfcS_kJPa96GwpTaUnDvfxsoe4=MQF7ZFkGQ=Q_qz974w9-PA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Raymond Jennings <shentino@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 14:03:09 -0700
Message-ID: <CAGDaZ_oa90ceRBADV0JZJzQfyw2cPZ1hMCPYsCHWK1UY6xv6zQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] call for agenda items -- council meeting 2019-04-14
To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ec60d705861f495b"
X-Archives-Salt: c13f6b7c-8c7b-4efd-957a-55b561f072e9
X-Archives-Hash: 971f7f151d6a89216a87fb24873c1510
--000000000000ec60d705861f495b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
The only thing that I can say is that obfuscating one's real identity could
cause problems in the following areas:
1. Accountability in terms of any problems caused, either by malice or
incompetence. For analogy, using caller ID to trace someone who may or may
not have been spoofing their ID
2. copyright law, which is likely to be obvious in terms of grants or
licenses, especially in the face of the GPL (of any version), and who owns
which copyright can possibly be traced by the inclusion of real life
identity. This also relates to point 1.
3. people doing gentoo work on company time may well forfeit their
copyright interest to their employer under "work for hire", depending on
jurisdiction and/or what arrangements are made. Said employer may be able
to veto the wishes of the actual author, and may have their own legal
department/law firm on retainer, and have deeper legal pockets to sue with
if they want to object. In my opinion, having a "paper trail" of sorts to
follow is essential both to track down legal problems and discourage anyone
from causing them, also in relation to points 1 and 2 above.
The details of how this is achieved is of course up to the proper people,
but my personal opinion is that requiring a linux kernel style "sign-off"
that at a minimum includes the real, legal name of the author of the change
being committed is an important part of the process that at a minimum makes
sure that said author is involved in the process of accountability,
especially if any problems arise from it (legal or technical or otherwise)
On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 1:56 PM Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 4:45 PM Alec Warner <antarus@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >
> > That being said I don't intend to forge a policy that is bullet-proof.
> If I cannot trust fellow project members to act well, they might as well
> just leave the project now.
>
> ++
>
> Ultimately if somebody with commit access wants to create trouble
> there are a lot of things they can do that are far more harmful than
> using a fake name. I think we just need to be reasonable.
>
> Usually the standard that is used in courts at least in the US is
> reasonable care, and it has no hard definition, other than basically
> being the amount of care a normal person would exercise to do the
> right thing. If you want to find out whether something is or isn't
> reasonable care the easiest way is to get sued, or sue somebody else,
> and then after a few years you get an answer, and maybe a judgment.
>
> I think there are probably some legal benefits to requiring a real
> name, but personally I think there are more benefits beyond that. I
> think it tends to create a more professional atmosphere when people
> are conversing with "Alec Warner" and not "Boaty McBoatface" or
> whatever. Also, having some kind of reputational risk probably does
> help cut down on the trolling somewhat. Maybe...
>
> If you wanted to put Gentoo on your resume would you really want a
> potential employer to Google it and find articles by people like
> "420forlife?" I think this sort of thing can help set the tone for
> the community.
>
> That's just my opinion...
>
> --
> Rich
>
>
--000000000000ec60d705861f495b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">The only thing that I can say is that obfuscating one'=
s real identity could cause problems in the following areas:<div><br></div>=
<div>1. Accountability in terms of any problems caused, either by malice or=
incompetence.=C2=A0 For analogy, using caller ID to trace someone who may =
or may not have been spoofing their ID</div><div>2. copyright law, which is=
likely to be obvious in terms of grants or licenses, especially in the fac=
e of the GPL (of any version), and who owns which copyright can possibly be=
traced by the inclusion of real life identity.=C2=A0 This also relates to =
point 1.</div><div>3. people doing gentoo work on company time may well for=
feit their copyright interest to their employer under "work for hire&q=
uot;, depending on jurisdiction and/or what arrangements are made.=C2=A0 Sa=
id employer may be able to veto the wishes of the actual author, and may ha=
ve their own legal department/law firm on retainer, and have deeper legal p=
ockets to sue with if they want to object.=C2=A0 In my opinion, having a &q=
uot;paper trail" of sorts to follow is essential both to track down le=
gal problems and discourage anyone from causing them, also in relation to p=
oints 1 and 2 above.</div><div><br></div><div>The details of how this is ac=
hieved is of course up to the proper people, but my personal opinion is tha=
t requiring a linux kernel style "sign-off" that at a minimum inc=
ludes the real, legal name of the author of the change being committed is a=
n important part of the process that at a minimum makes sure that said auth=
or is involved in the process of accountability, especially if any problems=
arise from it (legal or technical or otherwise)</div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 =
at 1:56 PM Rich Freeman <<a href=3D"mailto:rich0@gentoo.org">rich0@gento=
o.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex">On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 4:45 PM Alec Warner <<a href=3D"mailto:antar=
us@gentoo.org" target=3D"_blank">antarus@gentoo.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> That being said I don't intend to forge a policy that is bullet-pr=
oof. If I cannot trust fellow project members to act well, they might as we=
ll just leave the project now.<br>
<br>
++<br>
<br>
Ultimately if somebody with commit access wants to create trouble<br>
there are a lot of things they can do that are far more harmful than<br>
using a fake name.=C2=A0 I think we just need to be reasonable.<br>
<br>
Usually the standard that is used in courts at least in the US is<br>
reasonable care, and it has no hard definition, other than basically<br>
being the amount of care a normal person would exercise to do the<br>
right thing.=C2=A0 If you want to find out whether something is or isn'=
t<br>
reasonable care the easiest way is to get sued, or sue somebody else,<br>
and then after a few years you get an answer, and maybe a judgment.<br>
<br>
I think there are probably some legal benefits to requiring a real<br>
name, but personally I think there are more benefits beyond that.=C2=A0 I<b=
r>
think it tends to create a more professional atmosphere when people<br>
are conversing with "Alec Warner" and not "Boaty McBoatface&=
quot; or<br>
whatever.=C2=A0 Also, having some kind of reputational risk probably does<b=
r>
help cut down on the trolling somewhat.=C2=A0 Maybe...<br>
<br>
If you wanted to put Gentoo on your resume would you really want a<br>
potential employer to Google it and find articles by people like<br>
"420forlife?"=C2=A0 I think this sort of thing can help set the t=
one for<br>
the community.<br>
<br>
That's just my opinion...<br>
<br>
--<br>
Rich<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
--000000000000ec60d705861f495b--