From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B0B5139085 for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:24:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 87CC22340F4; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:24:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qt0-x230.google.com (mail-qt0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 526542340EE for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:24:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qt0-x230.google.com with SMTP id k15so90451367qtg.3 for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 14:24:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=luo/Wk7ewczjWeukNarGrTj6kQDQpbUuatUa+uhV3Fc=; b=k5AftZ+DFV3P8spWbZadmuw92ZotpEr24PvuATJrSaiG+K5TzV8s/wMknQsOA5iOMK 8FoyqhScHORO2dM6tT2QWqlGsgCu/RB+PD1iyRKeYUAEN5m9GE//O03g1iosX7bRWlG6 vTTCA0KbU3MEd6VcOC1y58JZ1jvZclrOFfZDd3bi7OdP5EuUfoHj0HrrbJFiPsnvs4ts aaXSsKypvmF4FM5uZ0YzwxI/nN88rrIE8wPyA/txvUxzam1QsGrWZprppiqD38Owsxdm VLazEXREOTkgtboljuxnCJ0PgWo3Uwd4GLfTP4I1/4umOnTjrlqTho2uA6orCrgk9Nz9 7/zA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=luo/Wk7ewczjWeukNarGrTj6kQDQpbUuatUa+uhV3Fc=; b=mftTRISRHnZVAU+tJvvt/vgpNt3pUeKLkF4afKb9RLk0Kb7M6qLkqvMnXvumVcaK/X hNO3lHeb+ZYZyvOIb6SXiNLpMDCRaHzYPJlz9t7aHGuX0lpHMTq2NebMVoa1KPsqWynW yvhshxICJoIaqoJ/iUinjuzED6vM5isBoLofmdY9OJjF0O+1lEGIALvflIPmmPxmqMkX as8e6ETUXtUFLiZV+ax9DhNrFDBqT4h3exu9PEPKVpJWP0yGHGQPcqP5pr/gJPQ/7k47 /1JWo6sNh02K/Rs69YTTn0HwsfI50gWdtvBmzJfB5/LljG0+T+ekA76Ke76uQGt0mKSV 24/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXIhW5chPnTfrGOb8JEKblzx6zgtDI3QH11eQQCpOjdnKwKoQFCuCPvlkMeKNYh+x4tUBmAvk7Y8OQ2JJg== X-Received: by 10.237.63.122 with SMTP id q55mr26542294qtf.201.1484519073464; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 14:24:33 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.98.140 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 14:23:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1604622.bZRWYHrp25@pinacolada> <98230e5a-36ed-283a-2d5d-a62c2901808e@gentoo.org> From: Raymond Jennings Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 14:23:53 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Formally have Council oversee the Foundation 2.0 To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114234520946b70546298838 X-Archives-Salt: aeb639a0-2662-48d3-948c-1a00b33a2ee6 X-Archives-Hash: 558cd2c707ce69a234ae03073bd8bcf8 --001a114234520946b70546298838 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 1:00 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 3:28 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. > wrote: > > On Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:16:58 PM EST Rich Freeman wrote: > >> > >> Honestly, saying that the Trustees legally have authority over the > >> Council is a bit like saying that the MPAA legally has authority over > >> anybody downloading torrents. > > > > The Council does not exist from a legal perspective. It has no legal > > authority. Only Trustees can represent the Foundation legally. > > > > I never claimed otherwise. > > However, this is a bit like saying that the MPAA has authority over > The Pirate Bay because the latter doesn't really exist legally, at > least not in the sense of a traditional corporation. > > There is a difference between having legal authority and having power. > In a court of law there might not be a difference, but very little in > the way of FOSS happens in courtrooms. > > -- > Rich > > IANAL IIRC the whole purpose of the gentoo foundation is to own the IP and insulate the actual developers from legal issues, thus saith my dev quizzes. The MPAA does not have legal authority over the pirate bay, it CAN however secure legal authority by filing a lawsuit against anyone administrating pirate bay activity, getting subpoenas, asking governments to issue indictments, and so on. There CAN be legal process against the individuals responsible for pirate bay stuff, and possibly any seeders or leachers they track down. Steele learned this the hard way when the FBI arrested him for the prenda law shenanigans, for example. Similiarly, "gentoo" cannot be sued, because it does not exist as a legal entity. The Gentoo Foundation, however, can sue and be sued. It would legally be empowered to enforce, say, the GPL against people who violate its copyright over gentoo code, or press criminal charges against hackers who attack foundation servers or other property. Rich0 is wise to point out that legal letter of the law is not the only factor of importance however. --001a114234520946b70546298838 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On S= un, Jan 15, 2017 at 1:00 PM, Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> = wrote:
On Sun, Jan 15, 2= 017 at 3:28 PM, William L. Thomson Jr.
<wlt-ml@o-sinc.com> wrote: > On Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:16:58 PM EST Rich Freeman wrote:
>>
>> Honestly, saying that the Trustees legally have authority over the=
>> Council is a bit like saying that the MPAA legally has authority o= ver
>> anybody downloading torrents.
>
> The Council does not exist from a legal perspective. It has no legal > authority. Only Trustees can represent the Foundation legally.
>

I never claimed otherwise.

However, this is a bit like saying that the MPAA has authority over
The Pirate Bay because the latter doesn't really exist legally, at
least not in the sense of a traditional corporation.

There is a difference between having legal authority and having power.
In a court of law there might not be a difference, but very little in
the way of FOSS happens in courtrooms.

--
Rich


IANAL=

IIRC = the whole purpose of the gentoo foundation is to own the IP and insulate th= e actual developers from legal issues, thus saith my dev quizzes.

The MPAA does n= ot have legal authority over the pirate bay, it CAN however secure legal au= thority by filing a lawsuit against anyone administrating pirate bay activi= ty, getting subpoenas, asking governments to issue indictments, and so on.= =C2=A0 There CAN be legal process against the individuals responsible for p= irate bay stuff, and possibly any seeders or leachers they track down.=C2= =A0 Steele learned this the hard way when the FBI arrested him for the pren= da law shenanigans, for example.

=
Similiarly, "gentoo" cannot be sued, b= ecause it does not exist as a legal entity.=C2=A0 The Gentoo Foundation, ho= wever, can sue and be sued.=C2=A0 It would legally be empowered to enforce,= say, the GPL against people who violate its copyright over gentoo code, or= press criminal charges against hackers who attack foundation servers or ot= her property.

Rich0 is wise to point out that legal letter of the law is not the = only factor of importance however.
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