From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46D7615800D for ; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 14:22:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 51ADBE0917; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 14:22:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [IPv6:2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33586E0917 for ; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 14:22:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yb1-f174.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-c15a5ed884dso4213681276.2 for ; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 07:22:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLZpOCAQ9eCv7HuiCiVRBDvzYG2OED0eg5oea5osX7c2H3hQymmn gpKvlCOpkfmMtjnU7hNyem+qlYZPR7FWARaFCr8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlHFus19VWOZwZ6IfGOZFCR4L1p6qAe2fwQr56PTGogdxVPCtaIVmr20XN7ODmFQBdMBUuaCYPNjk3qS0d+4kDE= X-Received: by 2002:a25:c381:0:b0:c11:974f:4b7b with SMTP id t123-20020a25c381000000b00c11974f4b7bmr8748238ybf.23.1688912520452; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 07:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2ZKWN4KF.MKEFFMWE.LGPKYP47@RTL7EJXF.RN4PF6UF.MDFBGF3C> In-Reply-To: From: Matt Turner Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2023 10:21:49 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Flow's Manifesto and questions for nominees (was: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo Council Election 202306 ... Nominations Open in Just Over 24 Hours.) To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Cc: elections@gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 10fec931-2905-4d74-970b-d08a3eaf2206 X-Archives-Hash: 6f72ecafb26f8ce6622fbd0b4ac1a662 On Sat, Jul 8, 2023 at 6:11=E2=80=AFAM Florian Schmaus wr= ote: > > On 28/06/2023 11.51, Florian Schmaus wrote: > > On 17/06/2023 10.37, Arthur Zamarin wrote: > >> On 15/06/2023 19.05, Roy Bamford wrote: > >>> Team, > >>> > >>> Did you spot the error in my original announce? > >>> > >>> Write your nominations email now but don't send it until ... > >>> Nominations are Saturday, 23-06-17 00:00:00 until > >>> Friday 23-06-30 23:59:59. That's from the start of Saturday until the > >>> end of the Friday for two weeks total. > >>> > >>> Replies to this message will make nominations easy to find for the > >>> election officials. > >> > >> OK, then let me start sending nominations :) > >> > >> [=E2=80=A6] > > > > >> I also want to nominate people who I feel contribute a lot to Gentoo a= nd > >> I have a lot of interaction with (ordered by name, not priority): > >> > >> [=E2=80=A6] > >> flow > > > > I apologize for the late reply, and thank you for the nomination. I am > > honored and accept. > > Here is my Manifesto: > > https://dev.gentoo.org/~flow/council-manifesto-2023.txt > > > I'd also like to ask the nominees about their stance regarding EGO_SUM. > > Any answer, ranging from, for example, "don't care" to "keep the status > quo" to "reintroduce EGO_SUM," is appreciated. But I kindly ask that > your answer does not lack details. For example, if you can think of > re-introducing EGO_SUM with some constraints, then clearly specify those > constraints. To be perfectly frank, I think you're leading these discussions in circles. I think I explained how I felt to you privately: < Flow> You feel like my reply to your mail was not serious? I don't question whether it was serious; I think it's an invitation for others to try to convince you of something it seems that you want others to present arguments in favor of the status quo to you but that seems to me to be backwards=E2=80=94you want a change, = it should be you who is presenting an argument to this point, many people have contributed to the thread, mostly to explain why EGO_SUM was deprecated if, this information had convinced you, we would have produced nothing. no change in policy for a non-trivial amount of effort others have acknowledged some situations where the lack of EGO_SUM has made things difficult and offered support in relaxing those requirements (e.g. by allowing EGO_SUM in overlays, and by allowing EGO_SUM to be used if Manifest size is below some limit) I believe you have rejected both of those so to me, it seems that others have spent significant effort explaining why things are the way they are and have suggested improvements and you appear to still want further justification of the status quo and have not softened your position at all as a result, I don't feel it would be a productive use of my time to further elaborate on why I think you've unintentionally provided data in support of a Manifest size limit < Flow> That discussion appears stuck, I can see why you feel that its unproductive but I think it's worth it to post that publicly as well because I don't sense that your approach has changed since that conversation (which took place on ~May 11). My advice for you is to take a step back, stop arguing so intransigently for your position, listen to others' concerns and begin working to resolve them. E.g. Sam has said that he thinks implementing a check in pkgcheck (equivalent to the one you implemented in Portage) is a blocker. You disagree, but that just leaves us with no obvious path forward. I'd posit that you could have probably implemented the change in pkgcheck in significantly less time than you've spent writing emails disagreeing with the suggestion. So tl;dr is: I really don't think there's more to discuss at this point, and I'm aggravated that you keep bringing it up (someone else counted 4 separate threads on the topic, and now the meta-discussion here) seemingly without any willingness to compromise. A seat on Council isn't the thing you need.