From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA1CD13933E for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 01:12:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C9638E0AD9; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 01:12:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60A7DE0AD9; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 01:12:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ej1-f53.google.com with SMTP id i20so567251ejw.4; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 18:12:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532vInmY0jGSfC3pM3gMJVkAlT9nKPcH2UpFdo6JAfPmKMn+NDaO UpS+O24tJdY1as2yucK5IteiGEtN3mHEmh+cXfA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxVfp/J1ZeaYMoCVtg6eKa0tPYnmsBBDVS2/vKxKqaOrT9m7vGWVq55BCgGoz6OM2/o3bmSm7Swo7nqv2xsrtw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:4e4f:: with SMTP id g15mr21595948ejw.217.1625620374186; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 18:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0b4c895018c93be369b1d534fe393f2f5b6952ea.camel@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: From: Matt Turner Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 18:12:42 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-nfp] 2021 Trustees election To: gentoo-nfp Cc: Gentoo project list , Gentoo Elections Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 215860b7-821d-478a-ac79-886ae969c01c X-Archives-Hash: 935abf5bfda2f07cce39988fd3a97ee3 On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 3:27 PM Aaron Bauman wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 06, 2021 at 02:57:38PM -0700, Matt Turner wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:32 PM Micha?? G=C3=B3rny w= rote: > > > > > > On Tue, 2021-07-06 at 17:29 -0400, Aaron Bauman wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 08:11:29PM -0700, Alec Warner wrote: > > > > > Greetings members and the Gentoo Community. > > > > > > > > > > The 2021 election for the Gentoo Foundation board of trustees is = coming up. > > > > > Anyone who is a Foundation Member as of July 1, 2021; is eligible= to vote. > > > > > > > > > > The nomination period is July 1 - 15 2021. > > > > > The voting period is July 18 - Aug 18. > > > > > > > > > > The Annual General Meeting (AGM) is 8/23 at 0100 UTC on #gentoo-t= rustees on > > > > > Libera Chat. > > > > > > > > > > The board has 5 members; robbat2, myself, and alicef retire by ro= tation > > > > > this election. > > > > > > > > > > -A > > > > > > > > I would like to nominate: > > > > > > > > mgorny > > > > > > Thank you for the nomination but I'm going to decline. I'd like to > > > focus on Council duties this year. > > > > As far as I can tell, you're the only one who has done anything > > concrete towards merging the Gentoo Foundation into an umbrella > > organization :( > > I explained this to you on IRC, Matt. I even asked what information may > be lacking, what the Foundation could do to improve communications, and > pointed you to the documentation for all things umbrella related and > finances. In fact you didn't, and that is not the perception I was left with from our conversation. I suggest that you reread our conversation, because I don't think you have an accurate memory of it. 18:25 <@ mattst88> | I'm also disappointed that some Trustees that were elected on a platform of merging the Foundation into an umbrella... don't seem to have done anything towards that goal 18:25 | mattst88: It is a long process... 18:25 | mattst88: of course, I think some opinions have chang= ed :) 18:26 <@ mattst88> | It is, but I see mgorny (not a Trustee) reaching out to umbrella orgs, not Trustees 18:26 | mattst88: he requested to do so and it was approved by the trustees. 18:26 <@ mattst88> | I think he took the initiative because it wasn't happening otherwise 18:26 <@FreedomBear> | Fair enough. Obviously the financial work Robin has done is valuable and necessary if we're to merge into an umbrella organization. I was not referring to him when I wrote the first line in that snippet. At no point in the conversation did you give an HTTP link. You said basically: it's on the Wiki and Bugzilla. Before today, there were only two minor edits to https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=3DFoundation:FoundationFutureState since September 2020. Is that an accurate picture of the Trustees' progress? I have no idea. There are no non-trivial changes to https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Main_Page this year. The https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Main_Page#Board_Minutes section ends in 2018 with no explanation as to why. The Foundation:Main_Page doesn't even have an accurate "Last elected" date for the President. I'm unsure what you find disagreeable about what I said? On IRC I asked how I could follow what the Trustees do, and you said: 18:32 <@ mattst88> | right. I meant, is there evidence of activity? presumably I can't just add myself to the trustees@ alias, so if I wanted to follow along I should... watch bugzilla? 18:33 | mattst88: bugzilla for sure. Wiki has the account information. But I'm not sure if Bugzilla contains everything. Presumably not. For example, it seems that a Trustee contacted the Linux Foundation in February and March [1]. I only learned about that because I saw robbat2 ask alicef in #gentoo-dev to summarize it for the Wiki. Robin added a bunch of information to that page today, and that's great, but probably insufficient as a general strategy for keeping Foundation members informed. > Yet, here you are publically tossing out false information based on > your imperfect perception. It's probably not a great strategy to scold people for not knowing what you know, when you're failing to document what you know... Anway, I'm not sure what's false about my statement, but this is kind of my point precisely! I don't know what the Trustees do. I don't mean in general; I know you approve funds, etc. But like, what things have you actually done in the last $timeframe? The Council has monthly meetings with logs and summaries. Trustees have one annual meeting. Obviously the Trustees do things between annual meetings. How can anyone stay informed? Maybe you could just clearly state what you've done towards the goal of merging the Foundation into an umbrella org? (I thought that at least at one point you were against that, so I'm not even completely sure of your position!) Maybe you're all working tirelessly to this end, but if you are, I'm almost completely unaware of it, and I don't think that's for lack of attention on my part. [1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=3DFoundation:FoundationFutureSt= ate&diff=3D929271&oldid=3D890055