From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA136138A1A for ; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 09:55:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3902DE0985; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 09:55:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ig0-f182.google.com (mail-ig0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B112E0984 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 09:55:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ig0-f182.google.com with SMTP id h15so18597089igd.3 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 01:55:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=iH8OUqOe4ssA0/XZXAQoMkBqhVyc6lCVy9o2VKdnFv0=; b=yxcmJCpBrZL0b9cXasuPMQjY8w4vQNNOMIwgzMZ/+UWbAlYL0SULYvj8CV2+nwPj4z 6FEgmzrJZMyDwD4FcEt/f7jM1vXk9pqXrrSCABABNfU6eUaxPrpk68n+QPZevC7537yi 3a/wsDiuLMWUbUKMGHab4f0OhhXoDlhhLaGCzCP9Jw8KEw6/Kd6U6soJ022urImytUWn k8tO4q85+8Az0EvUddT3dWxm70k/NAaU62xaxq0OkqHqM46JueiEkfo9Cfai7zFm+oM5 S3XBtr+tZAdjvnGepoqoleSm6eY3Hj1NK90mu9+n6PK80auTMoRn74HAxNwcSEReCqNb 55Wg== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.133.36 with SMTP id h36mr23595594iod.40.1423994142007; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 01:55:42 -0800 (PST) Sender: lexpublic@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.107.6 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 01:55:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1423967017.19532.4.camel@gentoo.org> References: <201502142148.30540.dilfridge@gentoo.org> <1423967017.19532.4.camel@gentoo.org> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 10:55:41 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: zeZsUAQDfxDtlSFpd6ElRLOkG08 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo, GitHub, and the Social Contract From: Alexey Lapitsky To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Archives-Salt: 71578733-ea9d-4deb-99e2-efd54bcbf4dd X-Archives-Hash: 4c5b5e9143e5f6b2eacc9ed7b05d1b92 Hi Mart, I agree with every sentence from your email. Rich made a great example about the rabbit hole. I don't think we should blindly follow the social contract. Just want to add that Github has pushed forward so many open source projects that we must ask ourselves a different question: Is Gentoo willing to say "no" to the new users, developers and the speed of development just because Github is not FOSS? As Rich said, Gentoo has always been a bit pragmatic. I think it should be an easy question for any pragmatic team. On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 3:23 AM, Mart Raudsepp wrote: > On L, 2015-02-14 at 16:37 -0500, Rich Freeman wrote: >> On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Andreas K. Huettel >> wrote: >> > >> > We need to resolve this discussion somehow, by formulating a clear policy. >> > Which is why I'm putting it up here for discussion and will ask to add it to >> > the next council meeting agenda. >> >> I tend to agree with what seems to be the general sentiment. As long >> as we still accept patches via bugzilla/etc, then we aren't >> "depending" on github. >> >> FOSS alternatives are to be preferred, but since we don't have those >> set up, I don't see why we have to live without anything in the >> meantime. If somebody wants to host such a thing, I'd encourage them >> to do so, and work with infra if they'll accept help. > > That is a good question. > I'm sorry if I am the only one to point this out, but: > We do NOT have even a WEB VIEW of our OFFICIAL overlays to see what is > going on there without BLINDLY cloning git URIs randomly! > Why should contributors care ONE BIT about things outside their comfort > zone of contributions, which is github in many cases these days? > After 6 months of complete blindness on official overlays, I was > eventually pointed at an outside cgit which shows what's going on there. > > After 2 years of talking, we are still using CVS. > > It is not surprising one bit that GitHub is the last hope to people > hoping to help out, with some folks willing to get their contributions > to actually MATTER. > We have failed the community to provide any reasonable free software > ways to contribute. So semi-open source ways it is. > > > With all the respect to the infra team they have done with their > existing capabilities, but we need to do better and find better ways to > achieve what we can with existing resources and fix this completely sad > state. > > > Mart > >