From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 025301382C5 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2018 01:33:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CA202E07E0; Sat, 14 Apr 2018 01:33:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vk0-x236.google.com (mail-vk0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70A14E07D8 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2018 01:33:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vk0-x236.google.com with SMTP id x204so6437303vkd.7 for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2018 18:33:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=scriptkitty-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=Qoe/QrBvE6c2KKVPrDrHt6TDZ7FXR8ZkUFDt3KNUYIM=; b=oIPwhy9HdwAi9ZuAC8TLe5dd1z8y5BMd41/LFYACdHaQrlW4G3e4TnvAIwjNdIbY2Y fmXFLXu98nxX2xLrMizAqKWt9QTEkzYla+PO8QAo/8drJaTyOJECT6qvlpg6rZVLI+DX qTbqTxMErIYSF+Q8czdFA8JU2GsDlyf9Q8Pa8VuMrrOV17LZsVwIi/PUqK83IyKjfvxw KvtmHXccxscTVHUOT5+RSoZW4zbh/TzoqpYAQ2M1kd68rNUtWex4i7ZzwCYNyOUK/oJv XguESIHG1fs9SnMMIXaTqIil8ByCXfX449Mcb/kKzu0Dv3B8uufx3Nfus/JwQ6xR03Vt XOOg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Qoe/QrBvE6c2KKVPrDrHt6TDZ7FXR8ZkUFDt3KNUYIM=; b=R6ugej8eMGER+si0ly2psdu237JlzsF3TnVplbn07bvcH7P/Gvcg8u9yTnxyJ2WgBQ Qh5u/IdqLm10sDgpnPQxgEhzLl8qzXt8i53fOSfzxR6P9JQnMIuRfSwvUdo/L6hI7I+C S7r2YXGG7Wb6g8xrBfBEXgbcwsFQbKw7mE9n0rcyPaQ4J0x2WnFHudMgj2jq3QSUby4E vlp+gyiPQ2WY49sFy+y/v7YZVAgE+WR92okYZ47LEcHzgLdeTamr8wCArmFUxD04yY/B My9EtzPj8CwOWtA6s/OqZapx/R8WT9/74OYnU1n4BAmK/u6ReCZrqxXUD/XX6FhLa6UO Th7w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tA+ObxpTsrOLCiVUpZnCaL8MSKpwsq7Jdb6+YFIpOVdx4TVLNQc UkcipDugIp/VzFrzDoUo+Oe+Zw5Y7+0x6Rpq0m93hNVG X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4+d+iCGxBtKT+dWPwTtkVUc5yb/+9iWve1cOaWpuys23bHaKQOLKb2Yde6GXxiUp5cUkLD824KyjEIN+M1AqxM= X-Received: by 10.31.92.69 with SMTP id q66mr5023214vkb.155.1523669632881; Fri, 13 Apr 2018 18:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: antarus@scriptkitty.com Received: by 10.159.51.2 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Apr 2018 18:33:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [98.116.189.160] In-Reply-To: References: <1523640697.5139.2.camel@gentoo.org> From: Alec Warner Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 21:33:52 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: rE30QEiO5dGTkKVApeRQQkmQNGE Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] pre-GLEP: Gentoo Developer status To: gentoo-project Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114f6e0c392e860569c4fb69" X-Archives-Salt: 2bca2ccb-73b9-4cfc-a817-78cbe53fb01a X-Archives-Hash: c6ece7ee01f7457128e04acf2da3ebfa --001a114f6e0c392e860569c4fb69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 5:28 PM, Francisco Blas Izquierdo Riera (klondike) = < klondike@gentoo.org> wrote: > Hi Micha=C5=82, > > Taking into account that the letter and not the spirit of GLEP 39 is > usually thrown around as a weapon ("INFORMATIVE", HAH!). I strongly > disrecommend having more "informative" policies. > > Not to say that whether you like it or not, not all non ebuild related > developer work is necessarily tied to a project. Even GLEP 39 mentions > this: "Not everything (or everyone) needs a project." > I think this is a gap in the GLEP wording. It claims a developer must contribute either in a repo or to some project. However undertakers don't retire people who respond to Gentoo mail, regardless of active project affiliation. This seems to leave a gap where people are not contributing to Gentoo in repos or in an active project, but are also not retired. Note that there is also no significant procedure for making a 'project'. So if I was about to be retired I could just make a new project, elect myself lead and then claim I was an active contributor and there is no policy against this. I tend to think the undertakers realize this and that is how we ended up with the current retirement policy (with the gap.) > As a closing note, I'm really getting tired of all this "Either you > write ebuilds or you are a piece of shit" philosophy that is running on > the ambient nowadays. If such people want a developer centric source > based distro, who gives shit about the non developers I strongly > recommend trying Exherbo instead. > Klondike > > > El 13/04/18 a las 19:31, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny escribi=C3=B3: > > Hi, > > > > Here's a quick pre-GLEP for review. It's a supplement to GLEP 39 that > > defines who Gentoo Developer is (GLEP 39 mentions devs a lot but doesn'= t > > say who they are). Alike 39, it's purely information -- it doesn't > > state a policy, just notes the status quo. It is also minimal > > and focuses on linking the policies of relevant teams. > > > > Please review. > > > > --- > > GLEP: 76 > > Title: Gentoo Developer status > > Author: Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny > > Type: Informational > > Status: Draft > > Version: 1 > > Created: 2018-04-11 > > Last-Modified: 2018-04-13 > > Post-History: > > Content-Type: text/x-rst > > Requires: 39 > > Replaces: > > --- > > > > Abstract > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > This GLEP aims to supplement GLEP 39 [#GLEP39]_ with the definition > > of *Gentoo Developer*. It shortly indicates the policies relevant > > to obtaining, preserving and revoking the Developer status. > > > > > > Motivation > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > Most of Gentoo's metastructure is explained in GLEP 39 [#GLEP39]_. > > However, while this GLEP is focused around Gentoo Developers, it does > > not define whom they precisely are. It lacks a clear statement of how > > new developers are recruited, and for how long they hold the developer > > status. > > > > The =E2=80=98status quo=E2=80=99 can be found across different Gentoo w= ebsites. > > The recruitment procedure (from user perspective) is described > > on the main site [#BECOME-A-DEV]_. The Recruiters [#RECRUITERS]_, > > Undertakers [#UNDERTAKERS]_ and Community Relation [#COMREL]_ teams > > provide their relevant policies. However, there seems to be no single > > document binding all of them together. This GLEP aims to be precisely > > that. > > > > > > Specification > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > A *Gentoo Developer* is a person who has successfully passed > > the recruitment procedure (as defined at the time of his/her joining) > > and is actively contributing to Gentoo Linux in one or both > > of the following areas: > > > > 1. Gentoo ebuild maintenance (either individual or through a project); > > with activity being determined through the official Gentoo repositor= y > > commits. > > > > 2. Contributing to the present Gentoo projects [#PROJECTS]_; with > > activity being determined at the discretion of project leads. > > > > The admission of new Developers is done by the *Recruiters* project > > [#RECRUITERS]_ upon asserting that the candidate has the necessary > > skills and motivation to actively contribute to Gentoo as outlined > > above, provided recent contributions to the specified areas. The exact > > policies and procedures are specified by the Recruiters project. > > > > The removal of Developers is done by the *Undertakers* project > > [#UNDERTAKERS]_. The Developer status can be revoked in one > > of the following conditions: > > > > - on an explicit request from the Developer himself/herself, > > > > - upon determining that the Developer is no longer actively contributin= g > > to Gentoo, > > > > - as a result of disciplinary action taken by the *Community Relations* > > project [#COMREL]_ or another explicitly authorized entity. > > > > The exact policies and procedures are specified by the Undertakers > > project. > > > > > > Rationale > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > This GLEP does not introduce any new policies but merely attempts to > > document the current standing practices. It aims to supplement GLEP 39 > > [#GLEP39]_ with the details necessary to understand who Gentoo > > Developers are, in context of the metastructure defined there. > > It does not mean to replace or thoroughly copy the relevant policies. > > > > Only the details deemed most important and relevant are listed: > > explanation whom Gentoo Developers are, what are their responsibilities= , > > what are the requirements for recruiting them and the possibilities of > > their retirement. The teams responsible for handling both of those > > processes and defining the detailed policies are explicitly indicated. > > > > The specific policy details were intentionally left out to avoid having > > to perform frequent updates to this GLEP. This includes the exact > > procedures, ``repo/gentoo`` commit access, devaway system, etc. > > > > > > References > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > .. [#GLEP39] GLEP 39: An "old-school" metastructure proposal with "boot > > for being a slacker" > > (https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0039.html) > > > > .. [#BECOME-A-DEV] Become a developer - Gentoo Linux > > (https://www.gentoo.org/get-involved/become-developer/) > > > > .. [#RECRUITERS] Project:Recruiters - Gentoo Wiki > > (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Recruiters) > > > > .. [#UNDERTAKERS] Project:Undertakers - Gentoo Wiki > > (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Undertakers) > > > > .. [#COMREL] Project:ComRel - Gentoo Wiki > > (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:ComRel) > > > > .. [#PROJECTS] Project:Gentoo - Gentoo Wiki > > (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Gentoo) > > > > > > Copyright > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike > > 3.0 Unported License. To view a copy of this license, visit > > http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/. > > > > > --001a114f6e0c392e860569c4fb69 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 5:28 PM, Francisco Blas Izquierdo Riera (klondi= ke) <klondike@gentoo.org> wrote:
Hi Micha=C5=82,

Taking into account that the letter and not the spirit of GLEP 39 is
usually thrown around as a weapon ("INFORMATIVE", HAH!). I strong= ly
disrecommend having more "informative" policies.
=

Not to say that whether you like it or not, not all non ebuild related
developer work is necessarily tied to a project. Even GLEP 39 mentions
this: "Not everything (or everyone) needs a project."

I think this is a gap in the GLEP wording. It clai= ms a developer must contribute either in a repo or to some project.

However undertakers don't retire people who respond t= o Gentoo mail, regardless of active project affiliation. This seems to
leave a gap where people are not contributing to Gentoo in repos or i= n an active project, but are also not retired.

Not= e that there is also no significant procedure for making a 'project'= ;. So if I was about to be retired I could just make a new project, elect m= yself lead and then claim I was an active contributor and there is no polic= y against this. I tend to think the undertakers realize this and that is ho= w we ended up with the current retirement policy (with the gap.)
=

As a closing note, I'm really getting tired of all this "Either yo= u
write ebuilds or you are a piece of shit" philosophy that is running o= n
the ambient nowadays. If such people want a developer centric source
based distro, who gives shit about the non developers I strongly
recommend trying Exherbo instead.

Klondike


El 13/04/18 a las 19:31, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny escribi=C3=B3:
> Hi,
>
> Here's a quick pre-GLEP for review.=C2=A0 It's a supplement to= GLEP 39 that
> defines who Gentoo Developer is (GLEP 39 mentions devs a lot but doesn= 't
> say who they are).=C2=A0 Alike 39, it's purely information -- it d= oesn't
> state a policy, just notes the status quo.=C2=A0 It is also minimal > and focuses on linking the policies of relevant teams.
>
> Please review.
>
> ---
> GLEP: 76
> Title: Gentoo Developer status
> Author: Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny <mgorny@gentoo.org>
> Type: Informational
> Status: Draft
> Version: 1
> Created: 2018-04-11
> Last-Modified: 2018-04-13
> Post-History:
> Content-Type: text/x-rst
> Requires: 39
> Replaces:
> ---
>
> Abstract
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> This GLEP aims to supplement GLEP 39 [#GLEP39]_ with the definition > of *Gentoo Developer*.=C2=A0 It shortly indicates the policies relevan= t
> to obtaining, preserving and revoking the Developer status.
>
>
> Motivation
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> Most of Gentoo's metastructure is explained in GLEP 39 [#GLEP39]_.=
> However, while this GLEP is focused around Gentoo Developers, it does<= br> > not define whom they precisely are.=C2=A0 It lacks a clear statement o= f how
> new developers are recruited, and for how long they hold the developer=
> status.
>
> The =E2=80=98status quo=E2=80=99 can be found across different Gentoo = websites.
> The recruitment procedure (from user perspective) is described
> on the main site [#BECOME-A-DEV]_.=C2=A0 The Recruiters [#RECRUITERS]_= ,
> Undertakers [#UNDERTAKERS]_ and Community Relation [#COMREL]_ teams > provide their relevant policies.=C2=A0 However, there seems to be no s= ingle
> document binding all of them together.=C2=A0 This GLEP aims to be prec= isely
> that.
>
>
> Specification
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> A *Gentoo Developer* is a person who has successfully passed
> the recruitment procedure (as defined at the time of his/her joining)<= br> > and is actively contributing to Gentoo Linux in one or both
> of the following areas:
>
> 1. Gentoo ebuild maintenance (either individual or through a project);=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 with activity being determined through the official Gento= o repository
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 commits.
>
> 2. Contributing to the present Gentoo projects [#PROJECTS]_; with
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 activity being determined at the discretion of project le= ads.
>
> The admission of new Developers is done by the *Recruiters* project > [#RECRUITERS]_ upon asserting that the candidate has the necessary
> skills and motivation to actively contribute to Gentoo as outlined
> above, provided recent contributions to the specified areas.=C2=A0 The= exact
> policies and procedures are specified by the Recruiters project.
>
> The removal of Developers is done by the *Undertakers* project
> [#UNDERTAKERS]_.=C2=A0 The Developer status can be revoked in one
> of the following conditions:
>
> - on an explicit request from the Developer himself/herself,
>
> - upon determining that the Developer is no longer actively contributi= ng
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0to Gentoo,
>
> - as a result of disciplinary action taken by the *Community Relations= *
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0project [#COMREL]_ or another explicitly authorized entity= .
>
> The exact policies and procedures are specified by the Undertakers
> project.
>
>
> Rationale
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> This GLEP does not introduce any new policies but merely attempts to > document the current standing practices.=C2=A0 It aims to supplement G= LEP 39
> [#GLEP39]_ with the details necessary to understand who Gentoo
> Developers are, in context of the metastructure defined there.
> It does not mean to replace or thoroughly copy the relevant policies.<= br> >
> Only the details deemed most important and relevant are listed:
> explanation whom Gentoo Developers are, what are their responsibilitie= s,
> what are the requirements for recruiting them and the possibilities of=
> their retirement.=C2=A0 The teams responsible for handling both of tho= se
> processes and defining the detailed policies are explicitly indicated.=
>
> The specific policy details were intentionally left out to avoid havin= g
> to perform frequent updates to this GLEP.=C2=A0 This includes the exac= t
> procedures, ``repo/gentoo`` commit access, devaway system, etc.
>
>
> References
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> .. [#GLEP39] GLEP 39: An "old-school" metastructure proposal= with "boot
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for being a slacker"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0= 039.html)
>
> .. [#BECOME-A-DEV] Become a developer - Gentoo Linux
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (https://www.gentoo.org/get-<= wbr>involved/become-developer/)
>
> .. [#RECRUITERS] Project:Recruiters - Gentoo Wiki
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/= Project:Recruiters)
>
> .. [#UNDERTAKERS] Project:Undertakers - Gentoo Wiki
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Undertakers)
>
> .. [#COMREL] Project:ComRel - Gentoo Wiki
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Proj= ect:ComRel)
>
> .. [#PROJECTS] Project:Gentoo - Gentoo Wiki
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Proj= ect:Gentoo)
>
>
> Copyright
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlik= e
> 3.0 Unported License. To view a copy of this license, visit
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.= 0/.
>



--001a114f6e0c392e860569c4fb69--