From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 958BF13908F for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 20:30:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B63C23402E; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 20:30:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ot0-x242.google.com (mail-ot0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C4262241A3 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 20:30:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot0-x242.google.com with SMTP id 36so24926036otx.3 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:30:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=scriptkitty-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=D9jnSG6BMSQsC4p2/+Q6TV76z7NrdjMoqlzzD2zsa7o=; b=Hhp+7CYqlmPDABMOgBqaq62ekG4CzjwjOxGVD1lsdTtQG3tOPEV6xCAwwcE9zhKVDJ 0SapSpWgxb43qNZnJiinsas70q9L9zpL8N2pdI+66W4qpIWyEZPTN8iQ7Q4HpV4IpDz9 zAg/LntxV6EWK7wfFIVboBT/MHPaHSTM/93a/vITooeF4hGcYw4aM83h8yULasZWwXB5 RIALUCyW6OzkgXQNvU9hatH7JSt295ly24eOnZOaPSILe2x7gSmEyGZGJhY9U/wx4KgI 4vGBXvLEzc4jfFLH2hgVfqAwEfLitraUWAMfw/ik/ZEaR6YCS9aYGFckCnavQNNXbI7R 8pUQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=D9jnSG6BMSQsC4p2/+Q6TV76z7NrdjMoqlzzD2zsa7o=; b=Ba4wkfy8DW+RBQ1cAaGGjrspUxoiWfUoWDiKgRfEVKaIgAXtLLEGjY8Zs+Ombocl5I 3ix0HrRqE0UDQaWaN2qe2+DOTIvAKeUUTNXIj16iOZ4Yu1VLp31MMWWFut1A64w2qXkF QRJmWA+jkfGbtOaav7XAU/ldc5GJwYIatmk+iIy8YSk+7pKd7kiJaVRFO7+AitH4ribY WnLJ5kaVW4IooZGSPz3Ynss+Mr7tt2OQrVjP5o5TSmxGzpXNg+RPUL42vn14YgNhtH8W JktnJe8UsfLdGX9jV/5yHp0+pZ6ooZHAU0+GuY8HkXvVDVnds36GgVz+E5I/lnNX/Rx9 oOTg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLpig++A5EEQ13LE5Axg3gHzsN7fpg5OmMd6ipUBNzHnIu4IrLsMTUhYcUR6tg7x4f3RvjG3WxMtycRog== X-Received: by 10.157.3.40 with SMTP id 37mr19150768otv.117.1485376207031; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:30:07 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: antarus@scriptkitty.com Received: by 10.182.156.15 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:30:06 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2620:0:1000:3217:c1b:d0bc:9df1:de13] In-Reply-To: References: From: Alec Warner Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:30:06 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ccy3eMUF_mvg5Rx5Q6922S6zEWw Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] A committee to review umbrellas as a new home for Gentoo assets. To: gentoo-project Cc: gentoo-nfp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c032f102dd7b00546f1190a X-Archives-Salt: 8d288fc1-2ab7-4f6a-aa7e-aa87cdd347d3 X-Archives-Hash: 1067302d10ade65d8e311dc09d4cf128 --94eb2c032f102dd7b00546f1190a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 12:00 PM, Raymond Jennings wrote: > On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Robin H. Johnson > wrote: > >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 02:38:55PM -0800, Alec Warner wrote: >> > According to the bylaws and NM law, the board may direct the formation >> of >> > specific committees. I recommend we form an adhoc research committee to >> do >> > the following: >> > >> > 1) Draw up a list of requirements for umbrella organizations (output, a >> > document of requirements.) >> #1 requirement: must be willing to take Gentoo as a member. >> >> > 2) Draw up a list of umbrella organizations (SPI, SFC, etc.) >> > 3) Evaluate each umbrella organization with regards to requirements in >> 1. >> I think many of the orgs will say no to #1, but ideally each org has a >> well defined set of criteria for joining, that we can evaluate Gentoo >> against. >> >> > NM law requires a committee have at least 2 board members, I nominate >> > myself and Robin. The committee may enlist the assistance of non-board >> > members (many of whom are CC'd; I also CC'd gentoo-project as there are >> > similar threads there. >> I decline the nomination, on account of needing time to spend on family >> matters; I will help where possible, but will commit to spending >> additional time on this (my remaining trustee term is dedicated to the >> financial matters). >> >> -- >> Robin Hugh Johnson >> Gentoo Linux: Dev, Infra Lead, Foundation Trustee & Treasurer >> E-Mail : robbat2@gentoo.org >> GnuPG FP : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85 >> GnuPG FP : 7D0B3CEB E9B85B1F 825BCECF EE05E6F6 A48F6136 >> > > If I may ask, why isn't the Gentoo Foundation itself suited to be the > organization? > > If there are any problems can't it just elect new trustees or change its > bylaws or something? > Not to insult the previous trustees, but I can't say the existing board (including myself) has done a great job; nor have previous boards. Could a new board be elected? Sure. Foundation members have this power. But people have to stand for nomination to the board. If no one is interested in running the non-profit it becomes difficult to further the argument that the existing non-profit is suited. In the past the non-profit was run in a "keep the lights on" fashion. We took in money, paid bills and filled paperwork. If that is what the Foundation's responsibilities end up being; then I think it will remain difficult to find board members and there is really not much advantage to having a separate non-profit at all. We might as well just join an umbrella organization. If the Foundation was to be more active (raise more money, have complex interactions, employees, etc.) then being an umbrella is risky because there can be a lot of friction from that sort of structure. However very few individuals seem to want a more active Foundation and I see many in the developer community oppose such activities. So I don't see an active Foundation as likely. -A --94eb2c032f102dd7b00546f1190a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 12:00 PM, Raymond Jennings &l= t;shentino@gmail.co= m> wrote:
=
On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Robin H. Johnson = <robbat2@gentoo.= org> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 02:= 38:55PM -0800, Alec Warner wrote:
> According to the bylaws and NM law, the board may direct the formation= of
> specific committees. I recommend we form an adhoc research committee t= o do
> the following:
>
> 1) Draw up a list of requirements for umbrella organizations (output, = a
> document of requirements.)
#1 requirement: must be willing to take Gentoo as a member.

> 2) Draw up a list of umbrella organizations (SPI, SFC, etc.)
> 3) Evaluate each umbrella organization with regards to requirements in= 1.
I think many of the orgs will say no to #1, but ideally each org has= a
well defined set of criteria for joining, that we can evaluate Gentoo
against.

> NM law requires a committee have at least 2 board members, I nominate<= br> > myself and Robin. The committee may enlist the assistance of non-board=
> members (many of whom are CC'd; I also CC'd gentoo-project as = there are
> similar threads there.
I decline the nomination, on account of needing time to spend on fam= ily
matters; I will help where possible, but will commit to spending
additional time on this (my remaining trustee term is dedicated to the
financial matters).
<= br> --
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Dev, Infra Lead, Foundation Trustee & Treasurer
E-Mail=C2=A0 =C2=A0: robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85
GnuPG FP : 7D0B3CEB E9B85B1F 825BCECF EE05E6F6 A48F6136

If I may ask, why isn't the Gentoo Foundation itself suited to b= e the organization?

If there are an= y problems can't it just elect new trustees or change its bylaws or som= ething?

Not to insult the p= revious trustees, but I can't say the existing board (including myself)= has done a great job; nor have previous boards.

Could a new board be elected? Su= re. Foundation members have this power. But people have to stand for nomina= tion to the board. If no one is interested in running the non-profit it bec= omes difficult to further the argument that the existing non-profit is suit= ed.

In= the past the non-profit was run in a "keep the lights on" fashio= n. We took in money, paid bills and filled paperwork. If that is what the F= oundation's responsibilities end up being; then I think it will remain = difficult to find board members and there is really not much advantage to h= aving a separate non-profit at all. We might as well just join an umbrella = organization.

If the Foundation was to be more active (raise more money, have com= plex interactions, employees, etc.) then being an umbrella is risky because= there can be a lot of friction from that sort of structure. However very f= ew individuals seem to want a more active Foundation and I see many in the = developer community oppose such activities. So I don't see an active Fo= undation as likely.

-A
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