From: Alec Warner <antarus@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-project <gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-core] Re: Poll: Would you sign a Contributer License Agreement?
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 17:06:02 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAAr7Pr9aDrmGTFw06niZgb5bkgrdxkaFbcwJ4rFO11Yr79+YRQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+CSuALoQoYXOsKL_GY-VnnYgfzp_1B_REnSxfApFGq=eoGauQ@mail.gmail.com>
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On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 4:52 PM, Denis Dupeyron <calchan@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 3:31 PM Alec Warner <antarus@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > I think you paint a fairly black and white picture here. If there are
> *concrete* issues then I want to see them here (e.g. adopting a DCO means
> these 5 people cannot contribute without some additional work) because its
> up to Gentoo to work out these issues. Maybe that means accepting
> contributions on a contingent basis while we work out the issues. Maybe it
> means delaying making the DCO mandatory for everyone. Maybe it means
> talking to lawyers to discuss specific legal problems.
>
> I have no opinion of the document itself, whatever it is. I was just
> making you guys aware that if this did happen, I and a bunch of others
> will be asked to stop contributing in any form until the document,
> whether good or bad, was reviewed and us allowed to sign it. Again,
> you can make the document as suitable as possible to us, it would
> still have to be reviewed by our corporate lawyers. If somebody,
> somewhere, decides this has to go full corporate, i.e., to Japan where
> I'm suspecting lawyers are not very familiar with both US law and
> open-source matters, you're no longer counting in months. And again,
> we're talking about the maintenance and continued development of
> things like portage and OpenRc. I'm hoping I don't have to make the
> case to you that it's difficult if at all possible to replace paid
> developers with a loose bunch of volunteers.
>
So I would rather get some consensus on the wording of the DCO and send it
to $employer_legal_department for review, as opposed to just doing nothing.
Gentoo the organization decides when / if the DCO is mandatory. I'm
proposing we finalize the wording and get a review (to unblock the DCO,
which is nominally a thing Gentoo wants to do.)
I think it should be a goal to retain the volunteers who are paid; and if
we cannot do that then well, that is a problem for future us (e.g. we need
to ask and have the employer unable to say yes for whatever reason.) I feel
like you are suggesting just not asking..and I'm not really on board with
that.
-A
>
> > I'd rather do a DCO and see things like "well we tried to recruit 20 new
> people but 15 of them left because of a DCO" than be subject to
> unsubstantiated fear. At least on that basis we can decide that the DCO is
> 'too risky to staff' and stop requiring it. But that would be an experience
> based on actually trying something.
>
> You just won't get 20 recruits or candidates. You will get much fewer
> to none of them. Mark my words. Imagine the situation. Young software
> developer has to choose between living his/her life on one hand, and
> on the other going through our stupid recruitment system, wait for
> months, and then ask his manager to ask his manager to ask etc... that
> his/her employer reviews this document and clears him/her to sign it.
> This person will either do nothing or become an arch developer. We
> don't live in a vacuum.
>
I'm less convinced by theoretical problems than by practical ones that we
have experience with though.
Maybe we can collect data from other projects who require a DCO and see if
they lost contributors?
-A
>
> Again, I don't have any opinion on the document nor the process. I'm
> just trying to raise issues which I haven't seen being raised before
> it's too late. When our employer asks us to stop contributing we will
> have no choice but to comply.
>
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-06-25 21:06 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 44+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-05-30 14:36 [gentoo-project] Poll: Would you sign a Contributer License Agreement? Ulrich Mueller
2018-05-30 17:45 ` Robin H. Johnson
2018-05-30 18:56 ` Rich Freeman
2018-05-30 22:02 ` Ulrich Mueller
2018-05-31 5:48 ` kuzetsa
2018-05-31 18:53 ` Ulrich Mueller
[not found] ` <20180530182136.GB18004@kroah.com>
2018-05-30 21:44 ` [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] " Ulrich Mueller
2018-05-30 22:31 ` Rich Freeman
2018-05-30 22:44 ` Ulrich Mueller
[not found] ` <20180531070321.GC7744@kroah.com>
2018-05-31 9:34 ` Ulrich Mueller
2018-05-31 10:18 ` Ulrich Mueller
2018-05-31 10:23 ` Ulrich Mueller
2018-05-31 22:24 ` Jonas Stein
2018-05-31 22:27 ` Kristian Fiskerstrand
2018-05-31 23:52 ` Raymond Jennings
2018-06-01 1:55 ` R0b0t1
2018-06-01 2:32 ` Rich Freeman
2018-06-01 11:49 ` Ulrich Mueller
2018-06-01 1:52 ` Ulrich Mueller
2018-06-04 12:35 ` [gentoo-project] " Ulrich Mueller
2018-06-04 12:44 ` Kristian Fiskerstrand
[not found] ` <20180625013334.GA28404@kroah.com>
2018-06-25 6:50 ` [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-core] " Ulrich Mueller
2018-06-25 7:02 ` Paweł Hajdan, Jr.
[not found] ` <20180625070525.GA6151@kroah.com>
2018-06-25 7:54 ` Ulrich Mueller
[not found] ` <20180625110540.GB3058@kroah.com>
2018-06-25 14:08 ` Rich Freeman
2018-06-25 14:37 ` Ulrich Mueller
2018-06-25 14:46 ` M. J. Everitt
2018-06-25 14:56 ` Rich Freeman
2018-06-25 15:53 ` Denis Dupeyron
2018-06-25 16:50 ` Rich Freeman
2018-06-25 19:02 ` Denis Dupeyron
2018-06-25 20:13 ` Michał Górny
2018-06-25 20:28 ` Paweł Hajdan, Jr.
2018-06-25 20:33 ` Denis Dupeyron
2018-06-25 20:31 ` Alec Warner
2018-06-25 20:52 ` Denis Dupeyron
2018-06-25 21:06 ` Alec Warner [this message]
2018-06-25 21:06 ` Ulrich Mueller
2018-06-25 22:10 ` Rich Freeman
2018-06-25 23:55 ` Andreas K. Huettel
2018-06-25 16:54 ` Ulrich Mueller
2018-06-25 17:10 ` M. J. Everitt
2018-06-25 17:37 ` Rich Freeman
2018-06-09 9:02 ` [gentoo-project] " Ulrich Mueller
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