From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A25971382C5 for ; Sun, 2 May 2021 19:19:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8EB66E08F2; Sun, 2 May 2021 19:19:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ed1-x52b.google.com (mail-ed1-x52b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7AFFE08F1 for ; Sun, 2 May 2021 19:18:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ed1-x52b.google.com with SMTP id j28so3900823edy.9 for ; Sun, 02 May 2021 12:18:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gentoo-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JRdXAe4iANtxbOqhu6ssg11zBWAR9ul9crvQKCL+ovQ=; b=ez8Rsddfwl1pKVQIsNAyDq9rtTbn6vVd8F9gRMa6VHwT4lT+MQSEDPuC5MK+3vvc9E dOScryi02iYojqzfRCWu+LtSjBaj57vf6umcWtiH+ZAyVr+tg6UtmNqmeQ/RBdbehvt9 jRJfrvgih1y9L1XeS/UpdDiXJoOncUwHWirPPlql3dSYPFlsd76yZHY1XhIyaM5ALeMs isdiDlXzdwsIaQ/WmtJjwCpqu+1mLYtsatrIR3xX9J4knngOXKT7GtfVw4b7iEJXA1Lr FkhXBWoSVYJpTuzzBI4dF4iQTKUrzDgvVkvUby2ieglfV+BJomXom1jgZUz6jS743TVq R9eg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JRdXAe4iANtxbOqhu6ssg11zBWAR9ul9crvQKCL+ovQ=; b=qOcmk6meu+YVrvpC9GUnObHdU38NWzwQJBFBtIWFzKMpgMljYWubCVqq5aMrJ3N7c+ btGjUKg0bqUTT4obZViJ0700UvEc55QFjhfS4VHfecOY40Z1hrQ/hHC4jIirBAV7GOLt lupCIQ3JJAPY1gLsDC39k7Rv+Q4bOFZtyoFwOma274RFfTaiI7M0Bw3vRyE4CAGiwN6W 6BRt2SURfW84YQ764q4/dMSxD6b8PsiAZM4qIy2zqycgGwFVHbdx6c62nnR9xLK6F5ns lWTlyhXun6wMQCmaQfXvYxSQfrjFvvf87zblupc1WWFjbAh9Gm04ZhOi92Srctp8skIx PLgg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532VgfA+puF2BMbUXwokrV4J+lWeafk4sueelzws6lQKnwOhkPMM zSOIN9MBcM+knYsJu5xHNM3H5yr3qecdBuA7ir3jnEv7/JNQCCxl X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwe/M6IS02cmecttFGqNBVYX/Mp48TkyFZ6I0DQpsyYJ6i9PJTcZ3SQrLhi4t1Rd3Ut7wl1/CoIM2YlSgz3CNA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:30bc:: with SMTP id df28mr15323670edb.67.1619983134703; Sun, 02 May 2021 12:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4775262.irdbgypaU6@pinacolada> In-Reply-To: <4775262.irdbgypaU6@pinacolada> From: Alec Warner Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 12:18:43 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] call for agenda items -- council meeting 2021-05-09 To: gentoo-project Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 6c712870-aedd-4755-ad70-f435110d5af5 X-Archives-Hash: 7a77b8b023667aea85cfb8c6d48c6342 On Sat, May 1, 2021 at 8:14 AM Andreas K. Huettel wr= ote: > > > Please respond to this message with any items you would like us to > > discuss or vote on. The agenda will be sent to this list a week from > > now (2021-05-02). > > There's rumors going around that Agostino's tinderbox basically > already burned through our entire 2021 AWS Open Source credit budget > and has overdrawn it significantly. Practically speaking I manage the AWS budget. If you are unhappy with how it's allocated; feel free to follow up with me. Developers who use AWS don't get a ton of say in the spending; I decide how much money we have, how many machines to buy, how big they are, etc. Developers can't even see their own cost usage. > > Independent of whether this rumor is true or not, I would like to > discuss > * how we can avoid such a situation in the future, > * and how we can fairly handle the distribution of limited infra > resources that may end up costing us money Ack, so I'll respond with the same things I said on IRC (hopefully, haha.) The AWS program runs November 2020 - November 2021. We were provided 25,000$ in credits; these are promotional credits so we cannot do things like use Cost Savings Plans or Reserved Instances (two ways to reduce cost on AWS.) This is our second year in the program. In the first year we spent very little of the budget (I think under 5000$) and I viewed this as something of a failure; we should be in a position to use more of the budget. When the program was renewed in November I wanted to spend more of the budget. When the plan restarted I gave folks more VMs that were bigger; with the idea that we would both track utilization (are the VMs being used) and cost (are we on track to spend well.) Current program state is as follows: - We fund 4 VMs. - We have spent 14,200 of 25,000 credits. - We are 5/7ths through the 12 month program (it ends Nov 31 2021) - We have 10,800 credits left, for 7 months. The plan then: - At our current spend, we will run out of credits. - 7 / 10,800 ~=3D 1500$ / mo average spend we need to hit. - Our current spend is ~$4000 / mo. - We have to cut our spending significantly. The risk: - We could run out of credits and incur costs. Assuming we did nothing, we spend approximately 4000$ a month. We have 7 months left; so that is 28000$ - 10800 (our remaining credits) leaves us with a bill of about 18000$. - We could end up not getting the program renewed at the end of the cycle, and never get additional credits. Both of these would likely result in us needing to relocate services to other providers. It's a known risk (and we have other onPrem providers that we have similar risks for.) I suspect practically we would rent hardware from OVH or Hetzner and migrate services to those. Unlike AWS, those providers cost money; which is one reason why we would prefer to spend the AWS credits instead. For specific projects using the credits we could likely self-fund a physical machine. These machines are not free (folks were estimating something like 60 euro a month to lease one.) My map here is "I'd rather spend AWS credits than pay 60 euro a month." If the credits run out or we don't get renewed in the program for 2022 we can talk about other options. Maybe we should lease a machine for stage building (as an example.) My process for resource allocation: - We currently have more resources than needs. While this is not true of AWS credits specifically; it is true of money in general. - This leads us to a low barrier for resource allocation. There is not scarcity, so the process to get resources is not intended to be much of a barrier. - Once there is scarcity, we will have different conversations. One risk I have heard is "why don't you reserve some of the credits for if something cool comes up?" or "how would we fund some cool new idea?" and the answer is "with actual money." The Foundation has enough money[0] to weather most of the bad outcomes (e.g. we could fund AWS for a month while we migrate away, we could buy hardware, we could rent hardware, etc. etc.) I consider the AWS credits as part of our cash-like reserves. We are spending them first because they expire and because they are not actually cash. We still have more cash than expenses; so in general I don't see a ton of pressure on Foundation expenses (and thus there is not intended to be a complex process for spending money[1].) I hope this helps; please follow up with me if you have additional questions or concerns. -A [0] We paid our taxes for the past few years and we have already filed our 2020 taxes; so there are no known large outstanding obligations. You can see our 2020 numbers here: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Gentoo_Foundation_Finances_FY2020 [1] There is an argument about spending Foundation resources 'well' (for some definition of that word) and while I empathize with it quite a bit, currently I don't think Foundation supports development very much at all; so my thought process is "try to support more development in general" and if we are not supporting development "well" (e.g. we think there is waste, etc) we can iterate on that. Get it working first, optimize second; if you will. > > Cheers, > Andreas > > -- > Andreas K. H=C3=BCttel > dilfridge@gentoo.org > Gentoo Linux developer > (council, toolchain, base-system, perl, libreoffice)