From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4D29138359 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 19:30:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AB07BE0954; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 19:30:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ed1-x536.google.com (mail-ed1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9384CE0953 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 19:30:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id dm19so29909621edb.13 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2020 12:30:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gentoo-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2TBv5P6iBwYfQZVsHXg+hm78FeCudkVzfKuTC1ucVnM=; b=frk/MNqHRFZFbxOcVfgB5/A2arbZbrewjHnk/cBilc2P0cBGUJBUDWBtb8FQuNxE3/ 0FdbC/AISIVAL7peSoDbx0jgln903QMaXqtEA1LaUyn2wq0KvtwFTESYi8IzI2USgjRS DNAxZpfdMiVLDfvA31RwcK7sUCNWxSdwJrAZhLCKJ5Wn9eVyh7B5HLvMedvKa2hkUwZs i+Iqq9hTl0l+SA40UXjpVlzaZXWTdJtfoAT80gvT+u5T8jau8906D/TB5mETBW6spZgz LtCKEXl+RNwJS0xwgV9aymYTFzjiBt1xQ8aEedzCu4RY0AXmNzWfzvn0O6POMm6OSuxC l6uA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=2TBv5P6iBwYfQZVsHXg+hm78FeCudkVzfKuTC1ucVnM=; b=Ezjni0i+I/kuRKaDKP4xGhBXFdXS3bGD8a6dEelK/2dPXDiAEmmDUk5JvIZMhjLA36 VJ5kfukIic6+aZBPzGZsJ2oxAA9kdosnEYqnlQAypZ0ccW4ZD3dP1LgsffRkorTHdrrc 92sj3LFrhF6YVqTpvVe0DwD10eanKSHtyYuioiNCXqaxUQcI0kW2iAVnah8y3rSGSbXh peQKqAWZavPm7lVYadaH/PiATXxUUB2UP8CtDToT90i0NiOXzPg5n3tbRro27h3pNIEL GyW+VzOuOw37RqSY8+F/x81gSfm+BimltRhGrkqWhj9++Jmhx+/HiB6CAoih47rrTImi ECbw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530rvQF2EMQ0ThFmdH3Vj1FrMPm/jOjI8TeV6pk4KD+mwEJd1lk0 zq/rCEXvtxWdduRNd0a0GLh0/8S34UppG6gDtYHlqTSdvWs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzuBU85f8K+D5LsWdZ5mR4hskEirUdf8ZzN6BA6iWLY1QeepbdTT0l8Scf6FCFalqlgfoN82ROqH/lR+NtpkLI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:2065:: with SMTP id bd5mr52797209edb.67.1594063815687; Mon, 06 Jul 2020 12:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200704193316.ae2d3f0fd3908036301c10c5@gentoo.org> <6DDF9C97-2168-4E61-BD8A-89D16EBDB947@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <6DDF9C97-2168-4E61-BD8A-89D16EBDB947@gentoo.org> From: Alec Warner Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 12:30:04 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Questions for Council candidates: Future of the Foundation To: gentoo-project Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007be26705a9cae78e" X-Archives-Salt: f2f34bb9-e02f-4fa1-9d04-b20a09546af4 X-Archives-Hash: f277d7c5335361b798166a3bca6409a8 --0000000000007be26705a9cae78e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 8:20 PM Aaron Bauman wrote: > > > On July 4, 2020 8:57:33 PM EDT, Alec Warner wrote: > >On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:44 PM Rich Freeman wrote: > > > >> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 12:33 PM Andrew Savchenko > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > This is one more aspect to this: some companies double donations > >> > for 501c3 organizations. A friend of mine works in a large > >> > corporation with HQ is the US and told me that his employer doubles > >> > any donations made to 501c3, so he made no donation for Gentoo, > >> > because that will mean loosing money for community which otherwise > >> > can be doubled. So it is likely that 501c3 will increase incoming > >> > donations. > >> > >> That is a really good point and I'll expand on this. > >> > >> Some organizations will only donate money to 501c3 organizations. > >> Basically they're letting the IRS do the due diligence around whether > >> the organization is actually charitable. They can potentially also > >> receive tax benefits this way. > >> > >> If you want to receive grants/donations from other 501c3 > >organizations > >> you will be far more likely to get them if you are yourself a 501c3 > >> organization. These transactions receive far less scrutiny than > >> transfers from 501c3s to other types of corporations. > >> > > > >This can be problematic for us in some cases. > > > >Currently our annual revenue is approximately 10,000 (All USD in this > >example.) If we are a 501c3 public charity, we are required to source > >1/3rd > >of our revenue from the public; and the public is determined by a > >complex > >set of rules. Generally this is "donations less than 2% of gross > >receipts." > >So e.g. in our current funding model, 2% of 10,000 is 200$; and we need > >to > >gross at least 3,333$ in donations < 200$. I can tell you the Gentoo > >Foundation easily passes this test[0]. However, if we were to be a > >501c3 > >and suddenly donations increased, when do we need to start worrying? > > > > You should really double check this math. > If there is a problem with the math, please point it out. > > >For example; assume gross receipts tripled in the new system, to > >30,000$. > >Now we need 1/3rd of this new total (10,000$) to come from donations > >less > >than 600$ (2% of 30,000$). Plugging in our 2019-2020 data, our support > >level here is not sufficient[1] and we will fail the public support > >test. > >Obviously the real numbers would be different but we might want to be > >careful in terms of how we tell people to donate and how we account for > >donations[2]. > > > >For example if I donate X and my employer donates X, I assume that > >counts > >as 2 donations (not 1) and we can influence the recommended value for X > >(e.g. we want X to be less than 2% of of expected gross revenues for > >that > >year, so it counts toward public support for the majority of > >donations.) > > > >The other challenge is that we have no actual plan for spending money. > > Many have suggested ways to do this. > > >Feedback from the community has not been very positive when I have > >tried to > >engage with them on how to spend the money. This presents an ethical > >problem in terms of raising funds we have no existing need for; the > >existing public donations from individual contributors already exceed > >our > >expenses by a fair margin. I suspect in addition to moving to a > >tax-exempt > >non-profit we would need clearer guidance from the community on how to > >allocate the potential increase in revenue. > > When exactly did you engage the community on how to spend this > revenue/income? > https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/106055a4c7b58694172f392e0279ec47 -A > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > --0000000000007be26705a9cae78e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 8:20 PM Aaron Bauman <bman@gentoo.org> wrote:


On July 4, 2020 8:57:33 PM EDT, Alec Warner <antarus@gentoo.org> wrote:
>On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:44 PM Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 12:33 PM Andrew Savchenko <bircoph@gentoo.org>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > This is one more aspect to this: some companies double donati= ons
>> > for 501c3 organizations. A friend of mine works in a large >> > corporation with HQ is the US and told me that his employer d= oubles
>> > any donations made to 501c3, so he made no donation for Gento= o,
>> > because that will mean loosing money for community which othe= rwise
>> > can be doubled. So it is likely that 501c3 will increase inco= ming
>> > donations.
>>
>> That is a really good point and I'll expand on this.
>>
>> Some organizations will only donate money to 501c3 organizations.<= br> >> Basically they're letting the IRS do the due diligence around = whether
>> the organization is actually charitable.=C2=A0 They can potentiall= y also
>> receive tax benefits this way.
>>
>> If you want to receive grants/donations from other 501c3
>organizations
>> you will be far more likely to get them if you are yourself a 501c= 3
>> organization.=C2=A0 These transactions receive far less scrutiny t= han
>> transfers from 501c3s to other types of corporations.
>>
>
>This can be problematic for us in some cases.
>
>Currently our annual revenue is approximately 10,000 (All USD in this >example.) If we are a 501c3 public charity, we are required to source >1/3rd
>of our revenue from the public; and the public is determined by a
>complex
>set of rules. Generally this is "donations less than 2% of gross >receipts."
>So e.g. in our current funding model, 2% of 10,000 is 200$; and we need=
>to
>gross at least 3,333$ in donations < 200$. I can tell you the Gentoo=
>Foundation easily passes this test[0]. However, if we were to be a
>501c3
>and suddenly donations increased, when do we need to start worrying? >

You should really double check this math.

If there is a problem with the math, please point it out.
=C2= =A0

>For example; assume gross receipts tripled in the new system, to
>30,000$.
>Now we need 1/3rd of this new total (10,000$) to come from donations >less
>than 600$ (2% of 30,000$). Plugging in our 2019-2020 data, our support<= br> >level here is not sufficient[1] and we will fail the public support
>test.
>Obviously the real numbers would be different but we might want to be >careful in terms of how we tell people to donate and how we account for=
>donations[2].
>
>For example if I donate X and my employer donates X, I assume that
>counts
>as 2 donations (not 1) and we can influence the recommended value for X=
>(e.g. we want X to be less than 2% of of expected gross revenues for >that
>year, so it counts toward public support for the majority of
>donations.)
>
>The other challenge is that we have no actual plan for spending money.<= br>
Many have suggested ways to do this.

>Feedback from the community has not been very positive when I have
>tried to
>engage with them on how to spend the money. This presents an ethical >problem in terms of raising funds we have no existing need for; the
>existing public donations from individual contributors already exceed >our
>expenses by a fair margin. I suspect in addition to moving to a
>tax-exempt
>non-profit we would need clearer guidance from the community on how to<= br> >allocate the potential increase in revenue.

When exactly did you engage the community on how to spend this revenue/inco= me?


-A
=C2=A0

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

--0000000000007be26705a9cae78e--