Re: [gentoo-project] Deferred decision: Forums (specifically OTW)

[Alec Warner <antarus@gentoo.org>]

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On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 4:13 AM Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 6:04 AM Alec Warner <antarus@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >
> > (i) I think you need to convince the existing forum-mods team that the
> CoC matters, and that they should actually enforce it.
>
> Seems like we need to convince the Trustees of this as well...
>

2 quick points then.

(a) I believe that the CoC is a tool to achieve a goal. The goal is to
apply a policy to have a community where people feel its safe to
contribute. That means safe from harassment, where contributors feel free
to speak their mind without being set upon. So when the CoC achieves this
goal, its good; when it doesn't achieve this goal, its bad. That is why I
think Gentoo needs a CoC; there is no intrinsic value in a CoC itself.
Instead the value comes from the community using it to hold its members
accountable to achieve the underlying goal.

(b) I am but one human, the board is 5 humans, the council is 7 humans. I
don't believe any of us use the forums and none of us are forums-mods. The
people who *currently* today apply the CoC in the forums are the forums
mods and they typically move the bad stuff to OTW. We need the support of
moderators in whatever decision we make. Either we get consensus from the
current moderator team, or we fire them and hire new moderators who will
enforce whatever unilateral decision we make. I'm suggesting that the
former (where we convince them our decision is correct and they should
enforce it) is better than firing everyone and hiring new mods.


>
> > I want to desperately avoid an outcome where the Council votes to make
> changes to the forum, but the board objects to said changes.
>
> Well, that is easy enough.  If there isn't any legal reason to object
> to a change, then don't.  If there is, then please speak up before
> somebody does something bad.
>

I'm not convinced my duty as a trustee ends at legal. The *community* has
no representation on the Council at all (users don't get to vote) and so I
struggle to see how the *community* is represented.

"Gentoo lives for the community, by the community

Gentoo strives to please its users. The Gentoo community is Gentoo's goal
of life. Without community there is no Gentoo. To help Gentoo's
development, the community provides a continuous stream of feedback and
contributes to the various aspects of the Gentoo distribution. This
cooperative model will remain valid for Gentoo's entire lifespan."[0]

If we strive to please our users, I struggling to see why we would remove
the entire forum (as was hinted at earlier.)

[0]
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Main_Page#Gentoo_lives_for_the_community.2C_by_the_community


> --
> Rich
>
>

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