From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8388139085 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:50:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1AD8521C09B; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:50:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ot0-x242.google.com (mail-ot0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D031621C099 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:50:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot0-x242.google.com with SMTP id f9so7065435otd.0 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:50:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=scriptkitty-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=f61HYLJBBZYvBUoTar2ClKRPAql09668ZYeBTvO1bSM=; b=P8a8dwLJpGKYJC0JUd6IBNO8h4MLUosvzPBcj9IfRe5LGT6nMCsoDeWMpseZkwBii0 kwYSzcKkf/xMUMWb9YKZXluuXvdrvpIjBaJQj9ztGR6bbx+5q2IZbsRKfuMtfvj/2u17 qwTkdjg8Ao7yX8awMzKSYnz7LNVFZNd4hLbWgh1exbultgr7zkZcuubm5azn8jBBYjbT 3jf2CVkrBQgNYckEnkupmyGJ6Z5iOGTAIbgmN1K7+V8gfboN4zwBtZpCanJUEUsuw9gZ XLgYEhmR5VqSodlntV/pOM/GMSdlbKjpV0nS+PLr19le9XmIySwwSXMMvINEXg7fvfuj 6IZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to; bh=f61HYLJBBZYvBUoTar2ClKRPAql09668ZYeBTvO1bSM=; b=W0aZON+c0lzxmaXXdaq+I165wORoA22Jmdlk4BBCa0E7LIwUUXyo+1diYHZU8PanjL wwSK8DCW5KNK1wb3U1tGr3xHeFp9QaLNZMiqIdQJRT20WRPhwlnoHnUGCnhbKfx4o/PO 3F72qPmck8xgqN3g8hnrVjyyXObInBEqUd+fSs6rS1fqknCGTnFhq+4IUUVCR5T6WRut o1d/3cwpcYXCx3KEqfZ6RUBsuTD4KrcCwwKPrQln7qj52zrg7i14vwWCINzsixk0PX0k 9uOU79rtpgMwt8vJTRZvX0Ecqi/JngxPcUHNW0hFHZy5fdF0xaeMOJxAv5wjMT6/G3rm 84ZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJMdx6rj0ev8I5WL6ZjfOeF5rYdqVGRmULj3wCZkAm6qmBiaJyqOOp0U28cIkXZ5HWWRThT+NQ54pZh5w== X-Received: by 10.157.35.74 with SMTP id k10mr19140665otd.113.1484589037812; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:50:37 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: antarus@scriptkitty.com Received: by 10.182.156.15 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:50:37 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [50.184.239.68] In-Reply-To: References: <1604622.bZRWYHrp25@pinacolada> From: Alec Warner Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:50:37 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: QsjvlrYqDmAhTBXLx_JbEJ6jUyY Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Formally have Council oversee the Foundation 2.0 To: gentoo-project Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d1cee3c943b054639d2a0 X-Archives-Salt: a045e6b0-2e1d-455a-94f5-c22aeadac897 X-Archives-Hash: 7019419fa9216f0b83ecab83aa613fbb --001a113d1cee3c943b054639d2a0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 8:31 AM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > On Monday, January 16, 2017 10:06:09 AM EST Rich Freeman wrote: > > > > > The SPI provides legal assistance, it does not take over all legal > matters > > > and also uses the SFLC. Gentoo may still need its own legal > > > representation. Their legal assistance is also at their discretion, > > > unlike other services. > > If we moved to SPI we would dissolve the Foundation. There would be > > no "Gentoo" to seek legal representation. > > Just because you go to the SPI does not mean Gentoo does not exist. If you > get > rid of the Foundation that is another matter. Some legal entity still has > to > own that stuff. > > > And since they're the ones who have to worry about getting sued, it > > really shouldn't be a concern that legal assistance is at their > > discretion. The onus would actually be on them to ensure that we're > > not doing things that will get them sued, not the other way around. > > Obviously we would be good tennents, and Gentoo generally tries to > > follow the law anyway. Most of the areas we struggle are areas that > > would go away under SPI. > > You have a misunderstanding of the SPI and you need to contact them to get > more information. This is NOT how they work at all. They DO NOT provide > legal > protection. > I agree with William here. The SPI does not indemnify its associated projects or members. You could argue that there is no legal entity to sue (and I agree that the Gentoo Foundation would be gone) but it just means that individuals are more likely to be sued, rather than SPI (who nominally operate at arms length.) That being said, I don't think this is a big deal because: The Gentoo Foundation also does not indemnify its members. It does offer indemnification to its board and officers (bylaws, article 7 section 12.1). But the foundation does not currently carry insurance and has limited funds to fight such suits. A bankrupt foundation cannot indemnify anyone to any useful degree. The SPI does provide some services (such as donation intake) and since they receive all of the donations; they also take on that risk. Its not clear to me how trademark enforcement works, for example. Its something I am following up on as part of my SPI review (and FAQ) for the Gentoo Board (and its members, all the stuff will be public.) -A > The SPI does not simply handle any law suits! They are NOT a legal body. > They > are financial, accountants, tax attorneys not legal ones. They use the > SFLC for > legal purposes. > > People seriously need to get more information. I spent considerable time on > all this as a Trustee, contacting the SPI and SFLC. You all are just > revising > things I have already and not listening. > > Do not take my word, go talk to the SPI. They have a IRC channel on oftc. > > -- > William L. Thomson Jr. > --001a113d1cee3c943b054639d2a0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On M= on, Jan 16, 2017 at 8:31 AM, William L. Thomson Jr. <<= a href=3D"mailto:wlt-ml@o-sinc.com" target=3D"_blank">wlt-ml@o-sinc.com= > wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 10:06:09 AM EST Rich Freema= n wrote:
>
> > The SPI provides legal assistance, it does not take over all lega= l matters
> > and also uses the SFLC. Gentoo may still need its own legal
> > representation. Their legal assistance is also at their discretio= n,
> > unlike other services.
> If we moved to SPI we would dissolve the Foundation.=C2=A0 There would= be
> no "Gentoo" to seek legal representation.

Just because you go to the SPI does not mean Gentoo does not exist. = If you get
rid of the Foundation that is another matter. Some legal entity still has t= o
own that stuff.

> And since they're the ones who have to worry about getting sued, i= t
> really shouldn't be a concern that legal assistance is at their > discretion.=C2=A0 The onus would actually be on them to ensure that we= 're
> not doing things that will get them sued, not the other way around. > Obviously we would be good tennents, and Gentoo generally tries to
> follow the law anyway.=C2=A0 Most of the areas we struggle are areas t= hat
> would go away under SPI.

You have a misunderstanding of the SPI and you need to contact them = to get
more information. This is NOT how they work at all. They DO NOT provide leg= al
protection.

I agree with William here.<= /div>
=C2=A0
The SPI does not indemnify its associated projec= ts or members. You could argue that there is no legal entity to sue (and I = agree that the Gentoo Foundation would be gone) but it just means that indi= viduals are more likely to be sued, rather than SPI (who nominally operate = at arms length.)

That being said, I don't thin= k this is a big deal because:

The Gentoo Foundatio= n also does not indemnify its members. It does offer indemnification to its= board and officers (bylaws, article 7 section 12.1). But the foundation do= es not currently carry insurance and has limited funds to fight such suits.= A bankrupt foundation cannot indemnify anyone to any useful degree.
<= div>
The SPI does provide some services (such as donation int= ake) and since they receive all of the donations; they also take on that ri= sk.

Its not clear to me how trademark enforcement = works, for example. Its something I am following up on as part of my SPI re= view (and FAQ) for the Gentoo Board (and its members, all the stuff will be= public.)

-A


The SPI does not simply handle any law suits! They are NOT a legal body. Th= ey
are financial, accountants, tax attorneys not legal ones. They use the SFLC= for
legal purposes.

People seriously need to get more information. I spent considerable time on=
all this as a Trustee, contacting the SPI and SFLC. You all are just revisi= ng
things I have already and not listening.

Do not take my word, go talk to the SPI. They have a IRC channel on oftc.

--
William L. Thomson Jr.

--001a113d1cee3c943b054639d2a0--