From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 709BC1381F1 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:59:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C3446E0B6A; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:59:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smarthost03b.mail.zen.net.uk (smarthost03b.mail.zen.net.uk [212.23.1.21]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A6CE0B69 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:59:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [62.3.120.142] (helo=NeddySeagoon_Static) by smarthost03b.mail.zen.net.uk with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1buICH-0007O7-Ht for gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:59:45 +0000 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 12:59:33 +0100 From: Roy Bamford Subject: Re: Comrel Accountability (Was "Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Trying to become a Gentoo Developer again spanning 8 years...") To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <3fde5ca5-f277-c0d2-ceaf-5dda35e93694@gentoo.org> (from zlg@gentoo.org on Wed Oct 12 11:26:18 2016) X-Mailer: Balsa 2.5.2 Message-Id: <9lqXJmigJD52qFG/dfT0Nj@3AwhdKuZsIQVkawHSKW3E> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-ws5r4Lm35YB7ga0aiOKP" X-Originating-smarthost03b-IP: [62.3.120.142] Feedback-ID: 62.3.120.142 X-Archives-Salt: aaed1dc6-83b5-4677-8b35-359399fe4616 X-Archives-Hash: 2987e02cc1d06655f9a889ec558de081 --=-ws5r4Lm35YB7ga0aiOKP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016.10.12 11:26, Daniel Campbell wrote: > Starting a new thread since this goes beyond the original's topic. >=20 [snip] Team, > Issues should be dealt with individually rather than a set of > problems, > as it makes it too easy to look at three or four problems together and > justify a harsh 'sentence' instead of giving each of them a fair look. >=20 > I feel this way because I would not want to be on the receiving end of > such incompetence. I joined Gentoo mostly so I could give back to the > libre software community, and to be more involved to hopefully help > create a better Gentoo. Incompetence is the wrong word. I used to share that view but no more. There is a potted history of the Gentoo metatstruture os the wiki at https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Gentoo_History=20 It was written for an entirely different purpose but gives timelines for the origins of the Foundation and council. devrel and userrel predate both the Foundation and council. There are some IRC logs from 2003 discussing setting up these projects. This predating Foundation and council is important to understanding=20 how we got to where we are. At the time devrel and userrel were set up, Gentoo had its BDFL. If he took an interest in the inner workings of these new projects,=20 he would get it. That these projects we set up as ordinary projects, with no checks and balances, was of no consequence at that time. When the council was formed and later, when the CoC was=20 formalised in 2007, the CoC granted enforcement powers to =20 devrel and userrel but they were still left as ordinary projects. Today, we have the situation where devrel and userrel have merged into comrel and we know that council do not review what their=20 delegate does except upon an appeal. Many of the people involved in the CoC and devrel in 2007 have moved on, so the collective memory of the intended interpretation of the CoC has been lost.=20 Its divergent evolution, not incompetence. [snip lots of good stuff] =20 > ~zlg >=20 > --=20 > Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer > OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net > fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C 1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6 >=20 >=20 --=20 Regards, Roy Bamford (Neddyseagoon) a member of elections gentoo-ops forum-mods = --=-ws5r4Lm35YB7ga0aiOKP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAABCAAGBQJX/iWlAAoJEFZf0zWq3OcJnn0P/20ybn3tUJq6VAO0ESJdlUqp bliJqWaz2OvdZD9+l9bfI2ftrMD2HoLYMoSLj1nHw3Q9HY12Ug7WaWqNUkhbmFTs x9vMuiH9Z4uj93ArXzdPLzUrDLrwdcUsBSQMpVLxfc4GaGNtt8aOd1z2z1J1aAkP QkGFhEC2wYxrHv0PN4uA+uMmVTMnjmCi6hH+tOEcpz1f3Qqepki5XBY1gda2chHs 144nPKVndiICa9ip65HuqPojh2+XatZHvAvTgkkYwFSlX83nLqQjADKv/TWwn1R3 wJeQ3y9k6rFgw5H1mjkbDqJeKbXVOKGSSULLOY2iW7WKthLS6y4th528SXsB1v50 iCja5xssWerRNPG9KE+wf8GaqYuH6L9x6Q5VJFo75FjW5xzKMxQuGlNNQQbNgKtb Wpj+WLL7vRza6Z/hvCUp5DINgrCBCJZXPRxWJVnJa0DcWT/XY2AS7wUw3KpEaA+Q qAFbpZ+cDnZJ2Q5yO+qyBTS5qA9K8DvbdRpSlvjMvJw4GyKO/TJ7arzkJcDOqlL5 DbnZVV8crWkbYHyYsf/VMwQIj5n19jTf3plCOIIRxdP7MNtNr5cfCdw+panJbnfi IegeYZsXim+5OntApm0DgBfaifxmFoGLblQTKEqqYy3DvzKDXDc4oiFRhvJLhCLK efg4tduoatC6W89NuNMq =39bX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-ws5r4Lm35YB7ga0aiOKP--