From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6C6D138334 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 12:16:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 79A92E0965; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 12:16:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (mail.gentoo.org [IPv6:2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E256E0961 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 12:16:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pomiot (d202-252.icpnet.pl [109.173.202.252]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mgorny) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4AB7A345EF7; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 12:16:49 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <92f43695d993039c3d1e9f5531855d8fc5fd7ed5.camel@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Deferred decision: Forums (specifically OTW) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_G=C3=B3rny?= To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:16:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Gentoo Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-qtU3beHa9NsQwJTYMK/h" User-Agent: Evolution 3.30.5 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Archives-Salt: 0778ded4-c694-4745-b699-2960b774d3c6 X-Archives-Hash: e7da9e7c5a9dda71294f9768e4a04325 --=-qtU3beHa9NsQwJTYMK/h Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2019-06-12 at 02:42 -0700, Alec Warner wrote: > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 8:38 PM Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: >=20 > > On Tue, 2019-06-04 at 15:05 +0200, Kristian Fiskerstrand wrote: > > > The agenda item "Forums (specifically OTW)" was deferred to further > > > discussion in the mailing lists during the 2019-02-10 council meeting= . > > > The agenda for that meeting can be found at [Agenda] and the tracking > > > bug is [Bug 677824]. > > >=20 > > > This email aims to re-opens the discussion [which was started in a > > > previous thread] as per the council decision. > > >=20 > > > I ask that the discussion remains civil and respectful, while also > > > allowing for a high bar for the actual discussion. > > >=20 > >=20 > > I don't think OTW is a major problem. The real problem are *technical* > > forums, and those cause two problems. The first of them is that > > developers rarely hear of the problems with their packages. The second > > of them is that Forums tend to breed very bad 'solutions'. > >=20 >=20 > I'm curious how this is different from other support forums. Are there no > bad solutions proposed on the wiki? in #gentoo? In other channels? >=20 I never said this is much different. However, this topic is about Forums, so I'm answering what my problem with Forums is so far. To be honest, I don't think I've seen any other support channel causing so much mayhem. But if I were to consider your question more deeply, then I believe there are differences: 1) Forums are more 'ad hoc' than Wiki. I dare say people usually put more effort to put correct data there than when they answer some forum post. Not to mention it's organized by topic, so it's easier to review, and provides ability to directly correct mistakes. On Forums, the best *I* can do (as regular developer) is point out the mistake in a reply and hope that user reads it before applying a bad idea presented earlier. 2) #gentoo is not really 'persistent' the way Forums (or Wiki) are. If someone gives a bad advice, it usually directly affects only people being on the channel at the moment. Even if the same bad advice is given multiple times or spread, I doubt it would reach the scope of Forum post that's publicly visible to everyone forever. --=20 Best regards, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny --=-qtU3beHa9NsQwJTYMK/h Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGTBAABCgB9FiEEx2qEUJQJjSjMiybFY5ra4jKeJA4FAl0A7S1fFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEM3 NkE4NDUwOTQwOThEMjhDQzhCMjZDNTYzOUFEQUUyMzI5RTI0MEUACgkQY5ra4jKe JA6dQQf/apBi70laoDcyjsBQ5bE6nwrAFtMk+E4xAyIGAeDQkOZwvI9Owq+Jze2g p3mIdzwb995nLL49HGPAWuzgJS+Y1AyWkmDIMvqARifpAdifBGmQd8axIRsmO0Nh S/sSiNx65SyQvUJ3w8gH8PhvCVLLJ1mXIzhOvkqJ5NO/hXSKVyZ2m1AyZPSSaE8I WFcgWcM0hRgHGOnAuhQicQtTd4KCzZNZfb/YoEfb6kyVNY8tgNh/325Jk/TdfGcP DSNV1ZLUo7IBmDDcjfzy9pJjphhpdBxWSmFml9ls0AnsZIC1TpUgA7xk2BP7gRmn QxzLlDIPGgNZn7+rwkQIrhkbe8YeZg== =Xhs0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-qtU3beHa9NsQwJTYMK/h--