From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 054A1138330 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 03:25:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BF91E0D01; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 03:25:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pf0-f194.google.com (mail-pf0-f194.google.com [209.85.192.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7783E0D00 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 03:25:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pf0-f194.google.com with SMTP id s8so1766841pfj.2 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 20:25:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to; bh=jMBmkv6lmWPm3xHrdjoM6PHnJsuLO+6OFEiq0N72m2A=; b=x9yrJUBXEYNs097csOPx9ycascFVAh0cCaWyHhrrTewaQdZBKC2+qS45Jji47FefwF K6C0Bcn7V4EGfAp+Ljd/s9pIVcxob8E2NQZP7gPpdRxdGiMv5wXEowHrsI60k8Wc8+1L LslwDFqhC5Em1gFRsMKg76BSUccVLP1bglrLPaSVIO5fk76eAOir0Ua3L6oj4dEk1Uyr x8jHDeYs2bQC+4oM6o5+jOjVTfUHqmcmdSwBgqBH0NUdRqrMoBJUkbY8e7Kh1XDmuy7I +TELFdT3H1WKwXzTAIIQDtjxPOT6cP/sSpmfsGlhWr1cFH4QgniwPabZOzTCpI6yeEgq y7JQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=jMBmkv6lmWPm3xHrdjoM6PHnJsuLO+6OFEiq0N72m2A=; b=VC+SwEofKgqgvEJ89pZz6RCZWsDXRHGXwtFPhGPr638rmrU3HM9pbLG/QlH3ooxmNN VKxvocz49wtEDBVtPu6OW7bEw6Mmbg9Ejkow7FqNujbV/UgcZTP9ivY0cMQx4WxSzFS2 HAZT/FVcYLZ3+14xdy8ZTM2ryTBnnjgJeRKZEdId4vY2O7Uvt43maSmxbapnHMMzSlYx XCBiRriRlOh05dVoXFg2WESQLAmLjCMZPRyXchDr4IhLkpdDhIRl3DR91Bb4ekJCx12W rpw7hBiTlXNE/0O/6OZRR3gzRnLMlEqHMWKEhA/BL/W1mvgZB+MPnxUl+e8fsvu6t955 P66A== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RlP2P6XBjUNB7p7wo45hO8+z/acKEiCWEoJdcFamXKfRR/YREd9nVobCEiS+LM75g== X-Received: by 10.99.67.7 with SMTP id q7mr5754337pga.74.1476242748457; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 20:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:602:9c00:cf41:a15c:1ca:cdf1:57a3? ([2601:602:9c00:cf41:a15c:1ca:cdf1:57a3]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id n87sm7612177pfb.3.2016.10.11.20.25.47 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Oct 2016 20:25:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Trying to become a Gentoo Developer again spanning 8 years... To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <201610112037.34443.dilfridge@gentoo.org> From: Nick Vinson Message-ID: <7f01241d-0e5b-220b-b90f-f41e41c4bbc5@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 20:25:42 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xS3qSuSTpa6L43caRhD5SpsoqCgfrL4W9" X-Archives-Salt: 9513e6e2-f805-40ce-83ff-3156bc09b4e1 X-Archives-Hash: 71730f83564d433102cdd5a7e25e2b4f This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --xS3qSuSTpa6L43caRhD5SpsoqCgfrL4W9 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="J4gFwjBipkjqv8T5428clJuE3hxLgVuG0" From: Nick Vinson To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <7f01241d-0e5b-220b-b90f-f41e41c4bbc5@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Trying to become a Gentoo Developer again spanning 8 years... References: <201610112037.34443.dilfridge@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: --J4gFwjBipkjqv8T5428clJuE3hxLgVuG0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/11/2016 12:10 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 3:03 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. > wrote: >> >> As lead of Comrel you should specifically addressing the topic of any = appeal. >> You should be able to clarify my status and what I would be appealing = to >> council. >=20 > The onus of any appeal is on you. If he felt that there was anything > to appeal he wouldn't have issued it in the first place. An appeal is > the result of a disagreement over a decision. If you ask a judge what > part of his decision was wrong and should be appealed, he'll tell you > that there was nothing wrong with his decision. That doesn't mean > that you can't appeal, it simply reflects the fact that any judge is > going to do their job however they feel is best. If they knew in > advance there was a mistake in their ruling they wouldn't have made it > in the first place. This isn't a fair comparison. When a judge makes a decision it and the events surrounding it are logged in the court transcript which is typically public. At most, the judge makes a decision and writes an 'opinion' that says what that decision was and how he reached it. My understanding is some one wishing to appeal a Comrel decision does so almost completely blind. It's not possible to know exactly what complaint(s) were filed against you, how Comrel came to its decision, and assuming the decision is flawed, what the flawed parts are. To me it sounds like Comrel is very much a "black box". Complaints go in, and if the device warrants it, a punitive decision comes out. If that account is incorrect, I'd appreciate anyone pointing out what I got wrong, but as I'm writing this, Comrel's handling of things is world's apart from how a typical court does it. That said, I'm not suggesting Comrel start writing "opinions" to justify their actions, but I am pointing out that William's frustration with being told he can appeal, but without any actionable information is a common thread I've heard from a few people who have had direct dealings with Comrel. Thanks, Nicholas Vinson >=20 > If you disagree with something Comrel did, then appeal whatever it is > that you disagree with. If you're fine with it, then don't. Either > way, if you don't appeal (either to Comrel as a whole or Council) > nothing is likely to change regarding your specific case. >=20 --J4gFwjBipkjqv8T5428clJuE3hxLgVuG0-- --xS3qSuSTpa6L43caRhD5SpsoqCgfrL4W9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJX/a03AAoJEAQpRPZaa5gqI+YP/0ICp8p/Gmc8nxrdG7KccBAH l+xSBdGC7W/uEPE9GnNMSbi2rwIfuctgzYGfnONM6pdfeSFHUQ4raSSHWrCFCkxS DzC0ZQ0VVDzo5P0d0YrbqnKEgWvkI1jnoSpS2MLYtFDyQzGCKpfszq+n7UxbMMFn f3Hrml7Ck2rU5IrLlUgwQLSgbjK+kZMuSPVSb/l0BhEWHj1fhckBH09EYV0d3KCr fto1dQ1fPiVmVSnzeMFX32v53Gc0EpKEOMfRcL1WDI25Px1fD0iV1t/hizccQPGG jM+jQEvwWrlKKIpHOuAw4u/cmeC6nyit5tNXA7Ldj+AuTnU0oO7VzdHCZrf2k4xC tOLhuuoWz1o8iaOP/Za/TB+gBnIkdUXI0+PbaH8KTGaMy2SoyjZbYvod4ZYYBmb6 2VP2XxHZca0UpSEjgmQS3daV3k3H38CnENLjJ68t8NKCeAnjq472WjSi2gIxXytR m6q7B/OYfpMY3Qf42JHfnp0mAS7oheeQuDGYjBi7t4r0oy8IAsczvf3i7XJI2RkD IZXOPnxyqTjCwETNxJIiWCnFpxDXvD2D1hmu86PSoxZHmzxNrlnx9EMuTO5pTfWr ABwN2j5NgLxKg92UsnmFqwYHRBbhk2xH78aqcgawc5TozAc0qwGzC9nfiQYrbbLC 1lDL5hTaJqMJuheCviMS =tLlp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xS3qSuSTpa6L43caRhD5SpsoqCgfrL4W9--