From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC5D1139085 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2017 21:16:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3A580E0D37; Thu, 5 Jan 2017 21:16:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from avasout04.plus.net (avasout04.plus.net [212.159.14.19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC275E0D10 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2017 21:16:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.6.147] ([46.208.76.211]) by avasout04 with smtp id UlGq1u0044ZY9cm01lGroX; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 21:16:52 +0000 X-CM-Score: 0.00 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=Groywg9C c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=3fABx4uJ6eXoS02SKkQYwQ==:117 a=3fABx4uJ6eXoS02SKkQYwQ==:17 a=13zjGPudsaEWiJwPRgMA:9 a=WbPmnYzAfxEA:10 a=xtxXYLxNAAAA:8 a=OH9rp6EVbY6-YzcCeBsA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=EsQZsGC4WfiJChXe66UA:9 a=ONNS8QRKHyMA:10 a=xts0dhWdiJbonKbuqhAr:22 Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo conflicts and leadership To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <8241b3e9-163c-99c1-d550-243301a418e3@gentoo.org> <8b06efde-27f7-9470-59dd-1a25716d6728@iee.org> From: "M. J. Everitt" Openpgp: id=BA266E0525CFAB101523351B4C30334F93C22371 Message-ID: <77a5f85f-4856-5204-7acf-e7bfc93254f9@iee.org> Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2017 21:16:50 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FWtOwBSglJmedKmmeeFitmxdxtfl9LGbW" X-Archives-Salt: 614b2866-c157-4124-b3a8-6e7d18da86c1 X-Archives-Hash: 11bcdb08c74c6898809ae8aaae6e5c73 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --FWtOwBSglJmedKmmeeFitmxdxtfl9LGbW Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="SLRqVxRlPKB8M49q6nDs9RUrrB8UE3R0d" From: "M. J. Everitt" To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <77a5f85f-4856-5204-7acf-e7bfc93254f9@iee.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo conflicts and leadership References: <8241b3e9-163c-99c1-d550-243301a418e3@gentoo.org> <8b06efde-27f7-9470-59dd-1a25716d6728@iee.org> In-Reply-To: --SLRqVxRlPKB8M49q6nDs9RUrrB8UE3R0d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/01/17 21:07, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 3:16 PM, M. J. Everitt wro= te: >> What really needs to happen, as a priority, is Gentoo as a whole needs= >> to acknowledges and actively pursue the idea that the "Gentoo communit= y" >> is significantly greater than, and not _EQUAL-TO_ the Gentoo Developer= s >> as defined by those electing council and those who hold a @g.o email a= nd >> /gentoo/developer/ IRC cloak. Until this happens, it is clearly >> visible that there is a potential conflict of interest in that the >> "community" preserves the status-quo and only ever acts on it's own >> interests, and not that of, for instance, its user-base or the *linux >> community* at large. >> > Anybody who wants to become a developer can do so if they have the > ability and desire to contribute positively. > > I get that there are people who don't have these abilities/desires, > and they may not always agree with where the developers want to take > things. In the end though, we're volunteers. We scratch our own > itches. > > On the whole I think a lot more benefits fall down to the larger > community when developers are happy than when they aren't, and so it > is going to be the nature of Gentoo to cater to the desires of the > developers. Of course that is true, and I don't have any problem with nurturing a good environment to work in. What I do have a problem with, is making an environment that is hostile for *anyone* to work in, or generally unhelpful to achieving the common causes which people care about ... > What is the alternative, giving a lot of voting power to people who > aren't developers? Suppose we do that. Suppose the larger community > uses their voting power to pass a policy that they want but which > developers don't want. Well, the developers will probably react by > spending their time doing other things, since nobody is forcing them > to contribute anything. Suddenly the community has shot itself in the > foot. Of course I'm not advocating giving the community-at-large a vote on who's in and who's out, or what we should or should not achieve (that's being very effectively done by the systemd team!), that's obviously counter-productive to what I would consider a common goal. If the goal ain't common .. go elsewhere ... > Ultimately Gentoo is working together to produce a product. If it is > a product that you want to use, then use it. If it is a product that > you don't want to use, please contact us for a full refund, and > consider contributing to somebody who makes a product that you do want > to use. That's why we have 4000 linux distributions and not one. > There is no rule saying we can have only one source-based distro > either, we certainly don't have just one binary distribution. Of > late, I'm not convinced that a lot of newer Gentoo users even care > that it is source-based. There is also no rule saying that we can > only have one distro that doesn't require running systemd... :) > Precisely, we will all work much better *together* if we're working to the same standards and the same goals. It is quite obvious to most, that the likes of William here, has different aims/objectives/ideas and principles to Gentoo. Now, whilst he would like to change those, its not in his power to do so .. so .. quite frankly, he should pursue his interest elsewhere... --SLRqVxRlPKB8M49q6nDs9RUrrB8UE3R0d-- --FWtOwBSglJmedKmmeeFitmxdxtfl9LGbW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJYbrfCAAoJEN7KWvRhIveDd6MP/RTU8iWMkdnTQjWypYJUDkZo 90DYltdM68NktsuiGd+mgSTLkZSPWfgVhEKNmAGgjOL3yEjp6GGLI2mElq3hddcF kOaIAoVCK8EVjsTkCIBmuK70GDLkB/8Y9IVTkPYE051VbZJa5bfMSkJ6qYcEj9sc NL9qbioIwTcEDbM47a2JOSjP3FnrwqRdnuFS0vbX0aoJ3mgW4fVNKicnDOcjIZ3S 69UaLuv4TBSiO0BV9FNl8YcupkQrNEIaWAX5KRc8WwK0HeRNVQ0FQZpfyzLu8SIa ZOYfNcEH41bTx3eBWsCkNks1f0HxRScx8bGeS65S6tjjLpunYa5THUnHwqKM8NCI 7UzHfXV7bq9Moyxx0NGabVqEMp5D+EvUYIZ4p3RLyZpln0rtfhMFDPJ/GA45LND7 RC+rKtBUfnBFWkd3BtbHe7si3YcXH1ZoPmLBKgV/GH91WdbqrDwSfpm08h5pIaMU 4XXuymLae2ysNp25qzx86ATDZJefOox+ynJqmS8O9iuZOq5bkCocQ5gZJoC0QK6/ ghuhaCR8BYB7u6NC7B1uW9FHlIZ7jZv9zj68y7cLJYjzKGThB+ZTCLvKS2rgK9OF /h4Esk07kyfOSM/to1K2QOCL1Jwp1nWF7HVzNzKTRtYFOH2zpwGgqEvp8490ANeI Ob0RJmKK/JDmakMjScVT =QLo7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FWtOwBSglJmedKmmeeFitmxdxtfl9LGbW--