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Sun, 30 Jun 2019 08:03:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Questions for Gentoo Council nominees: GLEP 76 To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <20190615124220.fcf0c08b22481d5bc6c2dbe0@gentoo.org> <20190615124933.b2f20fde0b47509e6b54f989@gentoo.org> <79783d8a-105e-7583-f319-f3c89a84eccc@gentoo.org> From: Patrick Lauer Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=patrick@gentoo.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFZ21dcBEADQV271GR2CsBDcud4f5gYd0xdQfIsGXzBsHYJ+rHrU/GH/Z1cOHXz88uWP axXao0YInKwCQbebXBebxG1WUJbAirw3tM2cnjs3d/s2ZXguAADCgkmYV3wcqYFJJK5ljPfA QfwE2UWLEbieCWcT6BjOYmlKYCX73rQLXxNsA9WWOfCCvFBduwMz0GvwR7ZZK3WayWonUd7/ ViiJ2iIv2My3FVU9oKTxZu0kdOU2s+NFbE3Kchy1gn1eoEfqLKU+KfQVhqlDLzuEe9aN+oez XqeOhkLPmUjyUXgThCTRwuTf7Y8T0+ADX2g3jPxQXO8gCj8xtSwZRV7XUAKME8pKaEgqZ7vG lag9oN/rfw0VA4ahm+Me9Pc0r86rw4D4DXX6sc6RbASOda0B3b8uhcNcYhS4T7MR2z0cSUB2 uU0E0qn8t5MuRHDuFSshlkHnb7pMd89fNvJM/2KVZRnPGrQUhIOdC3f3LuImxQ4imUvIE2bt PYPWLLFmTRqPWngol1k6WwHW9ZGhbQMCLroHZrpCg0sFDxj8gIZpiRQJx8OD2UNfJL2x8wlG xkzoYKuetdrPa/exxVbOW8UfNIgFHZPpWMr/jNvUvNBwg3CfnH8tEI3Bf+xUzz76pDSYLYyr xdcaYLbGpT6Q+YBVe90jfCtJumQkKnRyd83FE2L/fjtOSWzHOwARAQABtCJQYXRyaWNrIExh dWVyIDxwYXRyaWNrQGdlbnRvby5vcmc+iQJUBBMBCAA+AhsDBQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYDAgEA Ah4BAheAFiEEut9Jj/OKNwjbgMpcprmHORFEFNYFAlxMKu8FCQe2iJgACgkQprmHORFEFNaC bg/+J8V8v4J2oQqmHQlQezraYlX3yI4ODfFEOTCFoW+02gM1q9KQg77Bot9i7NsOTcGCYAld H8lAcs9M7iSa/VFLrAVcRPoqULufWN0g8CksNbNoqr7NYOEdM+jBLKiJMhYJDpepZEKtT1nS 32cnzIiDHAUGbTtgdHPKy3SXVtE5W4yR6HJ2nk5zbJgp7Ue9MY+PCzlCGu5XnabXbEVsWWcm TTS6pXO6ILnu0tI4vQiqoXETNA06LreSW4G2sKImDFhXwvt5ecClZsHE4lo4IxMhRWVeaeq6 ql2pZi1mImx2eTLROzbOFk3JwJJbLyIjV5zMtLqPyOdIIbxfNhr1ecPaQAYctzLU6OW3qRtc RMrvAE5QAX4x5cLsyU7AroshKjP8IotLqqqbQ8gctZahQg7+0E/uFtTYmIAqWXz+P4JIMQNk mAT2t4gsnHmG1uYirpfAueGqTwT/sODCd5GFXbGDWvJuheLe+vlZ2Rgpsp6Ew+1JRLRJGiM6 41aXNubQQwvR8UZTV545TqBFodxjS5xSqwsF0t3RkKbDAjTe7YZAs8/hzdycqiBlfgGszt7v 9oLgFGFqJg+WYGqVduA9D41lUPawiXKYriw3QxDRUc1oa8HGXqqGGA/Mh8VAi5HJUac6jeF+ IRx016LBakpDOCAstNdjUgH1w418VgodPSkQnX25Ag0EVnbb4QEQAMB5ARsnSpsyAUcFx5Tr +x6QIluw+rjbLloUY/s3rORx5HDCMinLBYu/ERskvcwh3utAkHURH4EHntigcIppqWkkp7HX 0bcNgKnpV7I8aX/V4kFI9JQmo+1YunO1XF3/2FzVsdBqQU33mZVw8XSkDVi6z+jxkt6iE/h2 3l1ceB7It8Tuef6zf3XZpEm1xKKEThYCrQ0ePEY2m8fu25/ecFVw3A98z9zViWPg0F42vXCx /VWf6/TXD3TPy4PZdVxhpVu38qPdRyM+uowcIFho761x6yd8vJLOjZs8RskIE6UsluChl7mk rkTjg1CLZW6xrhWzd2cfzU8WsXBrPibyxydpwXdZO9UypQUlPJ+kAmuK8sJ225U9Rl7GLBMK K4JzwT+OUXogGieQ+3qqz8nKcOg+rvjpKr7y6BS1Rr/xwwtZzw+hXv3/Q6KoNJCUW0bTKud5 oE31UOyH6nJiWB+X7i4VM8vpjM+iHu1xv1a9T6Li07zNv/GVcCk55+EQdDnmM2/3rG88Oyd1 KhbsC6PLsL+uLSz8M2iAR83rbJMWyq0gv6YDlSBFGWk3uoBomiw2B+XyfrGI7j5y0BQZAsKw +AJKUQ3qS/jgHDG000C21rGyzbInhuwfv2yPXcEfd3fAm0Ft/tQz84IlqUjIgGU493LtZghW 9FX/sCbUDlM8yAdPABEBAAGJBLsEGAEIACYCGwIWIQS630mP84o3CNuAylymuYc5EUQU1gUC XEwrAQUJB7aCoAKJwb0gBBkBCABmBQJWdtvhXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRp b25zLm9wZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRGRjcxMjBBMzlGQzhBNEQ0QTdDRjQwRDgz Qjc4OTcyOENDMzcxMTU1AAoJEDt4lyjMNxFViHsP/RhhPK08cPHSmce7yhJGGi7LSec6mBSJ KGWSnebVwN7pB0SgoV0891zVK6ZEGzYuURnBfGqU21fkRRwUuthf6d03Hr9LBv5ozMaHXWly 0/Ur2C/E69nN2FL8p+HADu2E1lXqfTyTywxAIBEY3LW/A+6SiLSk1QpSJR9Mljz55SHZv4Gu Sy9wNWiUSw+5lrfOBzEHyG1xYhIuNFZuLQI5s35BLuZ6zSJipXVOd7y86qRW1xPn0EUHZUDf 3vAt4oAf1OvYwtH6HvV3WaOX6GG+Hgryg7T6VuUpWfF/CFe7Kxq7qSOzUJkvKKF2GyDffaSC dS0iFuaKrdGH07IlPzmaVbr8xbdY5RgTFXMh61iNn2doNHK8pCGUWJplVunVAdrTekO2QnnI hHYs6eAtMZ9PFNCosU9Pi38COnYDrF+mnWby63DKsRDIS7Q+b8lfg/CfyR3Nd7hFH2wyHuoD a2DCi4Qa79YE6T/PryyJ/n4seqDrmQGmMJDy/60utzmpZTZwTK7rstAUxQAeRwTUKw4uclXD KCKL6kYtfBRODWqO72flGCatie6bJ31M9kRzl3eTcWIe46bDyOBEoj+a0ZXetKkzlfXAAegS OlExK6zOMen8bVssDpfyRp0dpPZDJKsdglf6gLB/58LQDEfKrf5HTIGQVLzXBNy+7cpqCyjF BzUuCRCmuYc5EUQU1uf/EADCSeUbgQiv/ByZhHmMGoIlmCKtptz92ulITRUvCvtKBiSiD3Wa eMRwU25S7JbSNNgeY1HD3xWnuaRT+sRXOW5WNup6mfpSMGpIeUlH5413vxTTpQFZJrHf6Rm4 8uIi3MScWU5VvAcjwmhSeIo18qYp23U+6vmQrL4OwVXX8gBcxOfyDB+mnCzUEcqBeUmpFa89 yEBxcmexEvR5qv7feIxhSwpFX4msaqaQ7Zyv4vuSmn6mGEgRLjXJqncAVNXqD2W2BXUYUtgJ OyTET9QHRijf9ZLFVpLCFXoCt22tSdEit0qPQ0DkGHC8Z7kvQpHc/ttZUkgs5SndXwbroxN0 0q1thAP4u2ONuYN8BqhcNy/QaypD1Msl7uO85uSd7dA1V6iKnJrdZH/4XOhkRQ1eRLYEz3Dl YtWqx/Nyj1vxb0GTm0C/KM0JQYPZkrC8Q96GIaN/8vPd1O0urtcyyGcMYs3rav+ssDHZA7AN fZtB2Si8gIR9spW/zhNgcgISyE8IXZB1t1Lu+oSSkvVSDfFIeAqxLQ16OcGhGaJtcVlq+H90 wvbXA3EhTzOCz4FR+X906JeR5p6xRfyf64z65R1C85+1Nz2EYKnc6FrpZ9UK35CTW1xvZN9n KmzwOqMg9oNhRMmblL5johra+Y4c1URAF+9DzNsoBrJdZ7VxyOqYHHKWYw== Message-ID: <6e47cd86-826d-4bb8-ffbe-97ea7b638af3@gentoo.org> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 10:03:52 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 7d936e22-6f5b-479c-adaa-8e4ffb8cc9ab X-Archives-Hash: 3316913829d7aff08b607a0edcf9d84d On 6/30/19 9:42 AM, Michał Górny wrote: > On Sun, 2019-06-30 at 09:11 +0200, Patrick Lauer wrote: >> On 6/15/19 11:49 AM, Andrew Savchenko wrote: >>> On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 12:42:20 +0300 Andrew Savchenko wrote: >>>> Hi all! >>>> >>>> Last year we had a good initiative: it addition to (or even instead >>>> of) manifests nominees were asked questions by voters. So let's >>>> continue this year. >>>> >>>> I propose to have one question per thread spawned by this e-mail to >>>> keep discussion focused. If you have multiple questions, please >>>> start multiple threads. If your question was already asked, please >>>> join a thread. >>>> >>>> I'll ask my questions in subsequent e-mails. >>> >>> In my opinion GLEP 76 is the most controversial decision made by >>> running council. While it fixed some long standing issues like >>> copyright headers and proper acknowledgement of out of the tree >>> contributors, it created grave problems: now some long-time >>> contributors and even developer are seriously discriminated because >>> they want to keep their privacy. >>> >>> What is your opinion on this problem? >> >> I think everyone involved in the discussion meant well, but different >> cultural starting points (e.g. different ideas about what copyright >> means), trying to find a compromise, not being experienced with legal >> language/concepts (or even legal concepts not translating well between >> languages) etc.etc. conspired to make this a very weirdly shaped thing >> that imo doesn't do what people think it does. >> >> I mostly ignored the discussion because it was a too high volume of >> email on a topic where I don't see a strong need to act, in hindsight >> that was naive optimism on my side. > > It's funny you say that given that you've trolled the result > for 4 months. > Hey I've really missed the personal attacks from you. Do you think I can get 20% off if I order a pack of ten? I consider the *ideas* behind GLEP76 pretty reasonable (even if I don't agree with it completely), just the way it is written is ... eh ... very much open to individual subjective interpretation, which is not what you want in a standard. Especially not near legal issues. >> >>> Should GLEP 76 be left as is? >> >> No,it should be improved. >> E.g. having signed commits, and adding signed-off-by, is ... weird. >> It also leads to semantic satiation, where every commit has >> signed-off-by, every commit, signed-off-by, signed-off-by ... >> >> And since it's autogenerated it doesn't really mean anything. It would >> make more sense to add it *only* to commits from not-gentoo-devs, since >> all the other commits are already signed by authenticated users. > > How would you verify that devs have actually read the new spec, and not > just ignored it? Do you prefer that we disabled commit access for > everyone, and then asked everyone to make a vow? > I don't quite understand what you read into my comment. Adding an autogenerated "Blessed-by-Krom" has very little *meaning*, so what do we gain by adding an autogenerated "Blessed-by-Krom"? (No, eternal battle in the afterlife is not guaranteed) Since it's mandatory to continue committing, and autogenerated ... what does it really do? And how does it do more than requiring people to read and understand the rules before, and signing their commits? (Which, legally, shows an equivalent intent) (Does anyone actually read *and understand* Terms&Conditions? How do you verify that? Usually you'd just assume that people are not actively malicious and that their word is enough) So from my perspective GLEP76 doesn't really improve the situation, just makes everything more complex and causes exhausting discussions about non-technical topics that don't improve the distro.