From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 478F3138330 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 03:54:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A79B221C06B; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 03:54:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pf0-f193.google.com (mail-pf0-f193.google.com [209.85.192.193]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B8A721C054 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 03:54:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pf0-f193.google.com with SMTP id 190so2138310pfv.1 for ; Thu, 06 Oct 2016 20:54:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to; bh=Onc9s3BzRi0JLWIP1jCsQUnhjKdA3KG82yvXtWZowjc=; b=VQjvCac491cv0juTpZdM4/ahJc9KFAQqYB1yM+7C7wmcvj8l1WLRE41Gf0oo1SKEdb 6YU1VcZJ4G6pfWDgHe92lz5ayDvEVB/RGc65nwq6bBjVuZRTM0K2sY/F2V6uwCMYPNwl pWmbenf4L8IR1esY1qHHzzDi3c/ifd1QCwf/VRDHwScLbDL9i6MevXvsd30+DZ7kId9R sapKjXFQeMzSGyvxG+yV9vOH4gqikvZe9LioEfX510vnr8NAzzv6hMBEdjgm1H2fkslI w4y8tfLL5/eEZf7rVDCU4YiXP30WayXmxH+wQTRY2L9zpLVaTXMR9Kp6erZ0tKxCRoBP MdIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=Onc9s3BzRi0JLWIP1jCsQUnhjKdA3KG82yvXtWZowjc=; b=SBe7iQNOj79Jrw24/H0I0K/y8SbfDiFADACL1nZsbyk4glvVX0xqTMgXm0PAOmYJAC BNnKYlBprK9I9bVDkfaSsd7QdP7cJbgNzpgVrl66j9sJizfM8t0oj5ajZ7td63U7PmBG 05SljLMqB4TH0SyHjODJffiwtpQbFjboFujJrgLbsxpJ97rVOneK+c2dxI6yV+CqUZgH iEkP1kqgjTWXHkxzBkfftiJerKV+igNpFaOZmOUU/DWRVmI4C+4xrMnKZyPIgXQrwiHp /3UkUJPVG/tZAy/wOoqgqglRrtA/hbnrnFyzgihfXVqeGB/u3BBQ9FHhMas5kMK4ov+E 1PJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RlzL36YAneTQJU32Y/+ZnsXNs2I2/CbHR9r6hC/WxiVfO30nIOaq6zox5u0ViKGMg== X-Received: by 10.98.113.135 with SMTP id m129mr24396884pfc.41.1475812467868; Thu, 06 Oct 2016 20:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:602:9c00:cf41:a15c:1ca:cdf1:57a3? ([2601:602:9c00:cf41:a15c:1ca:cdf1:57a3]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id u19sm9320460pfa.40.2016.10.06.20.54.26 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Oct 2016 20:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Trying to become a Gentoo Developer again spanning 8 years... To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <832d6b86-ee0e-4509-7f74-1e19fd4e4db9@gentoo.org> From: Nick Vinson Message-ID: <60b06d07-9922-14ad-c186-7ce5058a3cef@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 20:54:21 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="45tfuKRHJCwJdsXG9xeAdkt2h6DurU3ws" X-Archives-Salt: 6b1ac753-dbc8-41fb-88e3-57d254106877 X-Archives-Hash: fb0e47e81d4865e18da42fd323c6ee28 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --45tfuKRHJCwJdsXG9xeAdkt2h6DurU3ws Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="P4g9UF8eSt7fEWmaeOVD1UcRgkihbtBho" From: Nick Vinson To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <60b06d07-9922-14ad-c186-7ce5058a3cef@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Trying to become a Gentoo Developer again spanning 8 years... References: <832d6b86-ee0e-4509-7f74-1e19fd4e4db9@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: --P4g9UF8eSt7fEWmaeOVD1UcRgkihbtBho Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/06/2016 05:32 PM, Daniel Campbell wrote: > On 10/06/2016 03:02 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Daniel Campbell wrote= : >>> (Targeting one specific comment here) >>> >>> On 10/03/2016 11:04 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: >>>> [snip] >>>> Ultimately if you want to rejoin Gentoo you're going to have to >>>> convince either Comrel or the Council that you're not going to creat= e >>>> trouble. >>>> [snip] >>> >>> Are you speaking for William's specific situation, or in general? >> >> I am speaking for the general situation where a developer wants to >> return to Gentoo after having been removed as a result of Comrel >> action (or with pending Comrel action from the sound of things here, >> again I don't have the details personally but am going from what has >> been publicly posted here). >> >>> >>> Additionally, it appears that rejoining devs are merely treated like = new >>> devs. Or at least, *should* be[3]: >>> >> >> They are, when there weren't Comrel concerns from the last time they w= ere devs. >> >>> >>> Given the above, I have to question the validity of Comrel's involvem= ent >>> and ask why things that (allegedly?) happened eight years ago are sti= ll >>> relevant. >> >> Since I don't know the details of what happened eight years ago I >> couldn't comment. Neither could anybody on Comrel who does know what >> happened eight years ago since they're bound by the privacy rules. >> Presumably Comrel would decide if those things are relevant, and if a >> candidate developer disagreed with them they could appeal to the >> Council. From what I've seen in the public comments and discussion >> the concerns at this point have nothing to do with what happened eight= >> years ago, but the recent reactions to bringing them up. >=20 > On one hand I understand the privacy angle, but if information is kept > secret by Comrel in the interest of "privacy", how would we find out > about any decisions made in poor judgment, an over-reach in power, or > merely misunderstandings? >=20 > One such suggestion might be to join the project. However, I imagine > Comrel would want to keep information as close as possible and only > share it when absolutely necessary. For privacy this makes sense; for > transparency and accountability, it enables corrupt behavior. >=20 > I have not personally spoken with anyone in Comrel, so I cannot speak > about their methods, but without some degree of transparency my only > view as a developer is to hope I don't end up on the business end of it= =2E While it won't help with the accountability issue, I think Comrel members should be voted on by the greater Gentoo community instead of using the usual project membership and election rules. As long as Comrel has the authority it does, it makes sense to me for them to be accountable to both the Council and the community at large. As for accountability, I think the statistics suggestion made earlier in this conversation is a great idea. Unfortunately, anything beyond that will require a relaxing some of Comrel's rules with regards to privacy. I'm not against such an idea, but I can see it as being a more difficult thing to get consensus on. Thanks, Nicholas Vinson --P4g9UF8eSt7fEWmaeOVD1UcRgkihbtBho-- --45tfuKRHJCwJdsXG9xeAdkt2h6DurU3ws Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJX9xxtAAoJEAQpRPZaa5gqPuYP/A4ZStvTCV6mEyYWzndhpwpT ehx6DmGN0z3AXHoReTs+ehG1qNNJ9Wb+ktlRI2Hk1UlmXIoS8PS82WOwAFhSLFUi uw/Bmqbje+zmLa7YeHyM+nNWOdO8fgdThhOFOx0oGG5S9FFZM1vcfLo44fyH/QmT 94I3f4UxVNABe1kMT+UEEKtteL/BKkv1sHtbQD8D656sl0yqegc/5Z5o0XJGC8Kg niDl8Bws0LQET9qnsleKGnib566sFYezUDmUaepimjtu+OiqnLri5B2Hv5avTout YBvCWa7G0gb5cLcfJTcGy/dT+yumtqbUYFdntqzq2dAVFgXLVAaeULglLKNzv3n8 IvhUmjZ423zWmrlbKqvL6oYd+hmx8VaQRLX3n3+Mnh1ZDZ6ye3odMrO+huCsS76r S9tQBPKHsgDJ4qRILIq96YAOFKbZgDLFc33tQxBjnI0tvFooZZSrqiEEX/IK0j5/ hNhiUJ6cemYVvNXyAzVIS+P+s5IVJJnUtfIUsBX2CAInHK2wnSuUfcpc7ppPgWjO m4Twr8S91ybqGAC7jLuQYkd+jEQlNmrEhe5inqQvYC+ng9ErbZAeElaLf0Tq22La 1SBBBEApYKGwXJBMhRQlVzy4ik/l+eLdGAXX56sD3f1bErRROrMIc062VHFwNp4J F2vbBxpIE70xusDhikyD =Kedr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --45tfuKRHJCwJdsXG9xeAdkt2h6DurU3ws--