From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9F66138334 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2019 14:04:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D9228E0951; Wed, 3 Apr 2019 14:04:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89088E0951 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2019 14:04:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.10.30] (ool-4571a16e.dyn.optonline.net [69.113.161.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: np-hardass) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9B691335CE4; Wed, 3 Apr 2019 14:04:39 +0000 (UTC) To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org, antarus@gentoo.org References: <20190401032055.GA9497@linux1.home> <4bbfc34f-335f-5521-310a-b66ffd0d9a9a@gentoo.org> From: NP-Hardass Openpgp: id=862040BE422755F27FDE13D5671C52F118F89C67; url=https://sks-keyservers.net/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x671C52F118F89C67 Autocrypt: addr=NP-Hardass@gentoo.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFTkWCYBEADjDSP3/MDba3hDgUjy/8w2PU/kzx+AWwWkXuA3zUhBnS7AVK2Zh5gajysZ OWAkmZ0VmrzSHICQzYosyhq+YVIdTg5LvIxsG1fj2rSEMbqk9mtjdNDsoUmzUkECOL/Txph1 u46vtnMy97Gs82imE3uCBIQkxc+aUesePXeQGOh6EDcxMvFcn8x1lhXE244lES5Spu72Wen4 cYRpPboRTbuUxXUwrOIAOzF2eX5BDipZVKmrV9i5SC3oQIG1MnJdHDLWhDm3XQjlEsvH5Rge 55bvXFVs6Hzdv3SUI330E6W15kLt0Ij94nJqOgWCPfKu+7Tb2UYlVlCkiIFujIWxLGaQRXU2 3wOu7TuGJ0NQzP1lwCImdydEF+BL61l6awFI1ixwgZQGkzaEvXMhc6PltM12y5poFvcQXK+P aLdztY0cLSlhg36HZb+E8bavNLLIw4tJ2LKx8YmMNFfoIVAN33wU2QZ08SyT5VTCi8svU0U+ 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[gentoo-project] call for agenda items -- council meeting 2019-04-14 Message-ID: <5e30d658-80c8-b608-1505-dc08db3625bf@gentoo.org> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2019 10:04:36 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.2 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="A5Qlpz05SDAKkbHYnlFrCKOetZpEOZzrG" X-Archives-Salt: 7cd4d1e7-0c3d-47f0-9d96-0d798957a5f6 X-Archives-Hash: e4c267d0067025c159d4bca7f568c4d8 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --A5Qlpz05SDAKkbHYnlFrCKOetZpEOZzrG Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Q9yJ6J0C3SVJZtZJf5RJhBOoDlB80KeZb"; protected-headers="v1" From: NP-Hardass To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org, antarus@gentoo.org Message-ID: <5e30d658-80c8-b608-1505-dc08db3625bf@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] call for agenda items -- council meeting 2019-04-14 References: <20190401032055.GA9497@linux1.home> <4bbfc34f-335f-5521-310a-b66ffd0d9a9a@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: --Q9yJ6J0C3SVJZtZJf5RJhBOoDlB80KeZb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4/3/19 8:43 AM, Alec Warner wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Apr 3, 2019 at 7:31 AM NP-Hardass > wrote: >=20 > On 3/31/19 11:20 PM, William Hubbs wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > two weeks from today (2019-04-14) the Gentoo Council will meet at= > > 19:00 UTC in the #gentoo-council channel on freenode. > > > > Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to > put on > > the agenda to discuss or vote on. > > > > Thanks much, > > > > William > > >=20 > I'd like the council to discuss the issue and general trend of acti= ons > (particularly recent) to restrict the ability of developers to > contribute to Gentoo.=C2=A0 In my view, efforts are being made to m= ake > contributions as users substantially easier, while efforts are bein= g > made to make being a developer substantially harder.=C2=A0 The mont= hs of > studying, quiz taking, and interviews set a bar that should make > contributions from those individuals that become developers easier = than > the average user, not more difficult. >=20 >=20 > This is a pretty vague statement, are there particular things you want > the council to review; or just the 'general trend'? > I'm not aware of any recent changes to the developer onboarding process= =2E >=20 > -A > =C2=A0 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > NP-Hardass >=20 Not just the onboarding, but the retention too. General trend is what I'm proposing should be discussed publicly during the meeting. Three points: At present time, everyone needs a "Real Name" to contribute. A user, with a new email address, can allege to be "Foo Bar" and contribute without impediment, but, as recent proposals would have it, developers would need to show proof of ID over video call to become part of the web of trust for committing. That effectively allows any user to remain anonymous by using a false name, obviating a huge portion of the alleged benefit to requiring names in the first place. So, developers can be held to such a high standard that they can either no longer contribute, while we trim eligible pool of new developers and compare that to the ease with which any "named" contributor on github or bugzilla can do as they please. We currently have a RFC, just posted two days ago, for developers to be regularly tested to maintain commit status. Again, if the developer feels like it, maybe it is easier for him/her to just become a plain old user and submit patches, waiting on the (as I see it, dwindling,) amount of active other developers ready to commit instead. Totally anecdotal, I've seen developers that have fairly decent QA on their own commits merge PRs from users without full review and introducing a whole host of issues because code from users isn't always vetted as thoroughly as ones own work. So, I'd argue, the QA standards of being a dev don't quite apply to you as stringently once you downgrade to being a user... At the end of the day, holding developers to higher standards than users is a given, but it shouldn't be more onerous to be a developer than to be a user contributing. --=20 NP-Hardass --Q9yJ6J0C3SVJZtZJf5RJhBOoDlB80KeZb-- --A5Qlpz05SDAKkbHYnlFrCKOetZpEOZzrG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEv526yLNI+t7RHfJZHNlBHbKvGPsFAlykvXQACgkQHNlBHbKv GPtyqQ//TsB5FcR1UF4L09XKNP3BH1t2rPy3iuJd/Z9jD/Q7Zfcp/S6epki4HcKN vn4znBjbyHOxdBqAjmwqCwnG29pd9InCcwZTGKdcZ1fEqo49xQdIfpRqBMlyNgUF VPWS+YGFD679mhrnqgB/EioOvH2YimBkwz6cdq6tv9xhp3kn7BHk2HmfEdks6x0b EP8G3+d75ALcBTvAVAKJk2N1qzsusJweS9CJG3DpxDLZWCgg2ri/U61ury42+ztT 6+dRxCxtt3X0Hqz3AuKVDw4JYRViYxTDDEwhC226gkWMxdiOVWumDHP3Em745J2g EPweGzRLUnzJ1dwMxgyMC3i5qulahDbYG3NGW7/K751Kb0dHoMb11tPu6SQUV6Cq lC2Zgz+O5eY93riVM6twmiTIBMP5xdK8T7T0uvK53AW1CwJ5qr9jYe2Qv0evodJl //t4hV6sAO/HAZ44QPkbGbB8oYnCdJXjoMC2vLN3C+2E3eHORa+2A1+Oc7+RPpok yUBptjrF4CMALA44qPWvP3JkR1D8jsxs+TiQWUTkKnrjXM3CSNCxtbbPEvbWUALE USxElXt4UTAec6g4Jfx73w1CKtpkWJuq/zzBJyg9POPqE0sqfvnvR9LU4S88b+JX Y67DSHRroC6C02B7QIy8oyqZ7dgEenhdHQKbxRUk/d6dPF9kDaI= =v8Pc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --A5Qlpz05SDAKkbHYnlFrCKOetZpEOZzrG--