[gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-11-08

[gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-11-08

[Kristian Fiskerstrand]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Dear all,

the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, November 8 at 19:00 UTC
in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.

Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
or vote on.

- -- 
Kristian Fiskerstrand
Public PGP key 0xE3EDFAE3 at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net
fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJWLUJlAAoJECULev7WN52F4xEIAMAnyJd9Xvq0XzJDBjyoQZtN
AG/VZI5qTQFCC889lANx6EHYegs3qObDjGNX4Ce2xL34fg71LYgEuMq1PL2lkINr
X722X3Lvk8Yk106OzeBq4gqUCQlGmZD6/ExruB4CyWM1yz7CUmXfQKdR1+6YgKVj
de5IFPDK9bRpJsH8vAeX3UxJYEzhvp0ILxdrV/UOKICGWvI0QewFc5j3LTW7x9Wu
T2CUh1OM4OLaQ0TG7VVcENC5YoU/x5ixOQv+SlCoUniOiqgVrZW6rjU9egCTxXEk
DuuC2Hq2ZAuWvlgZQquByxKmqrWQqUmZFZzbGJ8CzzVXEJHY9QeCs9MGmBvmP4I=
=/Nzo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[gentoo-project] Re: Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-11-08

[Ulrich Mueller]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 967 bytes --]

>>>>> On Sun, 25 Oct 2015, Kristian Fiskerstrand wrote:

> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, November 8 at 19:00 UTC
> in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.

> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to
> discuss or vote on.

Following discussion in mailing lists, I believe that the EAPI 6
specification is ready for approval.

Git branch:
https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/pms.git/log/?h=eapi-6

Rendered version of EAPI-6 draft:
https://dev.gentoo.org/~ulm/pms/6-draft/

My suggestion for voting would be that we approve the whole
specification in a single vote, except for the following two features
which could be voted on separately:
- The package manager should set a bash compatibility level.
  https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/pms.git/commit/?h=eapi-6&id=e6cfa80244f6c5976712f39667abff4b99afdb19
- eapply_user is idempotent.
  https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/pms.git/commit/?h=eapi-6&id=bcba2ba2bc49dae254e491cc60e25ce9556d4899

Ulrich

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-11-08

[Kristian Fiskerstrand]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 10/25/2015 11:14 PM, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Oct 2015, Kristian Fiskerstrand wrote:
> 
>> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, November 8 at
>> 19:00 UTC in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
> 


..

> My suggestion for voting would be that we approve the whole 
> specification in a single vote, except for the following two 
> features which could be voted on separately:

Sounds reasonable, adding to agenda

> - The package manager should set a bash compatibility level. 
> https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/pms.git/commit/?h=eapi-6&id=e6cfa80244f
6c5976712f39667abff4b99afdb19
>
>
> 
- - eapply_user is idempotent.
> https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/pms.git/commit/?h=eapi-6&id=bcba2ba2bc4
9dae254e491cc60e25ce9556d4899
>
>
> 
I haven't read through the references yet, but is it also stated that
eapply_user needs to be applied at least once in addition to being
idempotent?

- -- 
Kristian Fiskerstrand
Public PGP key 0xE3EDFAE3 at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net
fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJWLdpnAAoJECULev7WN52FeoQH/i7keOnJBypyYq2L4GoSqwC6
uJh4NbbclJqJlffd18zHdeRmRGWOFsvHHWhRR7ManwbAF+8FGn+KtNz0CNgUTzu1
yoyI/IQWcPVbFiiF93eKCShKNOizyD4xPBtTiHLeTieGN5zt4upYOKq5TGTSrm6x
G2B6zjya2Kh3KsBsPPc+4SNPCAafrx3+kZuOzsCnvoMKQTm48XpNLv3jJLdH9y5f
uRr6ZzP0EmX/ZAKc3vO2UIe3p6un1ptaxWQ2CEJuAcbR/IG+/BejYge6Lw3gcxwJ
AIgiBWeppspgwGOh/Ld03Bmto7gV76Ov2sOizeMFv/Ar0T6jZOqgY3MJUUtu4Og=
=Bb15
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-11-08

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 3:47 AM, Kristian Fiskerstrand <k_f@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I haven't read through the references yet, but is it also stated that
> eapply_user needs to be applied at least once in addition to being
> idempotent?
>

It says it must be applied once.  The reference in this case is just a
diff to one line, so you should probably just read it.  :)

If anybody has additional pros/cons to the idempotent proposal that
haven't already been raised I'm all ears.  I was against the change
but I'm willing to go along with it based on the arguments so far.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-11-08

[Kristian Fiskerstrand]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 10/26/2015 01:52 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 3:47 AM, Kristian Fiskerstrand
> <k_f@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> I haven't read through the references yet, but is it also stated
>> that eapply_user needs to be applied at least once in addition to
>> being idempotent?
>> 
> 
> It says it must be applied once.  The reference in this case is
> just a diff to one line, so you should probably just read it.  :)
> 

touché :)

- -- 
Kristian Fiskerstrand
Public PGP key 0xE3EDFAE3 at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net
fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJWLityAAoJECULev7WN52FJn8IAID4l8i1CN9idpRoyh8upMTR
hRbmAb+mjIxdyREHwX25h7AUgmXxr5qmvFj4JBpZTsKKNoywZ9I8YMMfbe7wO4mU
0+wS+1RIqpha134Axn2BsxkJEwsjkkYGcT2szAzs0F+6Wo+S2ux2yAr08NCo3e8b
5K1ikooESGOYrsgeE+zQigu5S2DibgK4xWJozwZPsNOry8SJ+FNwo2E2yS3aWgAA
bM8wlRaNWGMQXN0Yx31pxygFXjm146x//rys0MBrhzJMSBl7ZZ1WW4EQd+BjmPKc
kOk1QkoWqFuXgHsFLo8Is8TdCr6gYDicbyBYCQFbCE7Jozpeee5Zdi70ZhUZztg=
=glea
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-11-08

[hasufell]

On 10/26/2015 01:52 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 3:47 AM, Kristian Fiskerstrand <k_f@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> I haven't read through the references yet, but is it also stated that
>> eapply_user needs to be applied at least once in addition to being
>> idempotent?
>>
> 
> It says it must be applied once.  The reference in this case is just a
> diff to one line, so you should probably just read it.  :)
> 
> If anybody has additional pros/cons to the idempotent proposal that
> haven't already been raised I'm all ears.  I was against the change
> but I'm willing to go along with it based on the arguments so far.
> 

It's still not clear to me how this is supposed to work at all. Are we
expected to run eautoreconf unconditionally just in case a user will
throw in a patch that alters the build system? I definitely won't do
that, because autoreconf is the source for a lot of problems and build
failures.

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-11-08

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 559 bytes --]

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:11:37 +0100
hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:
> It's still not clear to me how this is supposed to work at all. Are we
> expected to run eautoreconf unconditionally just in case a user will
> throw in a patch that alters the build system? 

No, you can opt to run it only if user patches were applied.

> I definitely won't do that, because autoreconf is the source for a
> lot of problems and build failures.

Well perhaps you should fix them, rather than hoping the problems won't
be noticed.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 181 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-11-08

[hasufell]

On 10/27/2015 08:22 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:11:37 +0100
> hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> It's still not clear to me how this is supposed to work at all. Are we
>> expected to run eautoreconf unconditionally just in case a user will
>> throw in a patch that alters the build system? 
> 
> No, you can opt to run it only if user patches were applied.
> 

How?

[gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-12-13

[Kristian Fiskerstrand]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Dear all,

the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, December 13 at 19:00 UTC
in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.

Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
or vote on.

- -- 
Kristian Fiskerstrand
Public PGP key 0xE3EDFAE3 at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net
fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJWWxtZAAoJECULev7WN52F9XUH/ikEMOsHaKKNjpxXDHY+N7Et
0kojOVcWF//YrR7ns8srC+fiGHnxakpl+Q9kIA/H1jxL/tYN30QBfpgjHCvOQY+8
12YNC37ROBvFkzChvw+Qt/X6CuIMPUGr+9LFbb+MwAb3hQWXe6VZ3F+eUABHFQ8C
vxJpDxpMKZrfOI1HkUHy7aycpp3Oe1d5d7/nOTKVwku0bYGGHCvRV92efGiSiRIX
gNFmyao4Z8u6yDcL5qKrpJ4dqwiCSq5AfU4daK4FMrF3zpiTu71abGo3JsktUiR0
Q1Tt+KiJ4N40dw382Wu4vSa1tyoWWwzOU4I+trDUaWoZHRh/IvYFOUVsYkXBugo=
=vMyT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-12-13

[Ulrich Mueller]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1468 bytes --]

>>>>> On Sun, 29 Nov 2015, Kristian Fiskerstrand wrote:

> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, December 13 at 19:00 UTC
> in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.

> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
> or vote on.

I'd like us to revisit the games policies already discussed in the
20151011 meeting [1].

The Council accepted the following motion:
   "1.  Decide that games should not be owned by a games group, and
   that in the default configuration users should not have to be in
   the games group to run games."

However, the following was a tie vote (and therefore did not pass):
   "2.  Games should be installed in /usr and not /usr/games as with
   most applications"

I propose to vote on the following motion (which is basically 2 with
minor refinements):

   The /usr/games directory is deprecated. Games packages should _not_
   install any files there, but follow the normal guidelines for
   install locations instead. Two exceptions are made:
   a) Games packages can install files in /usr/share/games (instead
   of /usr/share) if that is the location used by upstream.
   b) Shared high-score or game state files can be placed in
   /var/games or a subdirectory of it.

Possibly we could then reconsider item 3. of rich0's proposal [2].

Ulrich


[1] https://projects.gentoo.org/council/meeting-logs/20151011-summary.txt
[2] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/16fc54d2bced9ff51b71d387eb0fb36b

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-12-13

[Ulrich Mueller]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 581 bytes --]

>>>>> On Sun, 29 Nov 2015, Ulrich Mueller wrote:

>    The /usr/games directory is deprecated.

Correction, make this: "The /usr/games and /etc/games directories are
deprecated."

>    Games packages should _not_ install any files there, but follow
>    the normal guidelines for install locations instead.
>    Two exceptions are made:
>    a) Games packages can install files in /usr/share/games (instead
>    of /usr/share) if that is the location used by upstream.
>    b) Shared high-score or game state files can be placed in
>    /var/games or a subdirectory of it.

Ulrich

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-12-13

[Michał Górny]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1358 bytes --]

On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 16:36:01 +0100
Kristian Fiskerstrand <k_f@gentoo.org> wrote:

> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, December 13 at 19:00 UTC
> in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
> 
> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
> or vote on.

I would like the Council to review, and possibly vote on GLEP 67 [1].
Please note that there are trivial pending changes in [2],
and a reference projects.xml output on [3].

Please note that while the output is formatted for GLEP 67,
the projects in Gentoo are not yet ready (e.g. have colliding e-mail
addresses). The herd->project migration isn't going very fast either.

Since herds are deprecated for some time already with no clear
replacement, I think it'd useful to approve the GLEP ASAP.
If the meeting results in additional change requests, I think we should
post-approve them by bug vote.

When it's approved, we will also need a deadline for developers to set
things up. In particular, a term after which we assume that developers
are not interested in persisting the remaining herds and they are to be
disbanded.

[1]:https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GLEP:67
[2]:https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:MGorny/GLEP:67
[3]:https://gist.github.com/a3li/38efb778a455af42b95f

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny
<http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/>

[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 949 bytes --]

[gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-01-10

[Justin Lecher (jlec)]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Dear all,

the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, January 10 at 19:00 UTC
in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.

Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
or vote on.

Justin
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0
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=KNLR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-01-10

[Ulrich Mueller]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 766 bytes --]

>>>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2015, Justin Lecher (jlec) wrote:

> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, January 10 at 19:00 UTC
> in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.

> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
> or vote on.

I would like the council to vote on banning EAPIs 0 and 3:
"EAPIs 0 and 3 are banned. This ban includes both new ebuilds and
updating the EAPI in existing ebuilds."

Since EAPI 1 is on its way out of the tree (only 13 ebuilds left as of
today), I think we should also drop the exception which had been added
in the 2014-03-11 meeting:
"In case of non-maintainer commits to fix dependencies, EAPI=0 ebuilds
may be updated to EAPI=1 to keep the changes at a non-intrusive level,
as a temporary workaround."

Ulrich

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-01-10

[Michał Górny]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 936 bytes --]

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 17:50:52 +0100
"Justin Lecher (jlec)" <jlec@gentoo.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, January 10 at 19:00 UTC
> in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
> 
> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
> or vote on.

A second round for GLEP 67 would be good. I've updated the spec [1] to
be clearer, replaced examples and filled up Reference Impl section.
The conversion scripts are ready and initial conversion is prepared
[2]. People are creating and fixing projects, and setting mappings.

I'll ask GLEP editors to update the official copy before the meeting.
I guess we can approve it at this point.

[1]:https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:MGorny/GLEP:67
[2]:https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/pull/559

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny
<http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/>

[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 949 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-01-10

[Daniel Campbell]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 12/27/2015 10:03 AM, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2015, Justin Lecher (jlec) wrote:
> 
>> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, January 10 at 19:00
>> UTC in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
> 
>> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to
>> discuss or vote on.
> 
> I would like the council to vote on banning EAPIs 0 and 3: "EAPIs 0
> and 3 are banned. This ban includes both new ebuilds and updating
> the EAPI in existing ebuilds."
> 
> Since EAPI 1 is on its way out of the tree (only 13 ebuilds left as
> of today), I think we should also drop the exception which had been
> added in the 2014-03-11 meeting: "In case of non-maintainer commits
> to fix dependencies, EAPI=0 ebuilds may be updated to EAPI=1 to
> keep the changes at a non-intrusive level, as a temporary
> workaround."
> 
> Ulrich
> 

Is there a particular reason EAPI 2 is left alone, or has it already
been deprecated/banned?

I'm generally in favor of lowering the number of EAPIs we need to
worry about, especially since iirc EAPI 6 brings a handful of nice
things to the table.

- -- 
Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer
OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C  1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2
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=eOdq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-01-10

[Ulrich Mueller]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 984 bytes --]

>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jan 2016, Daniel Campbell wrote:

>> I would like the council to vote on banning EAPIs 0 and 3: "EAPIs 0
>> and 3 are banned. This ban includes both new ebuilds and updating
>> the EAPI in existing ebuilds."
>> 
>> Since EAPI 1 is on its way out of the tree (only 13 ebuilds left as
>> of today), I think we should also drop the exception which had been
>> added in the 2014-03-11 meeting: "In case of non-maintainer commits
>> to fix dependencies, EAPI=0 ebuilds may be updated to EAPI=1 to
>> keep the changes at a non-intrusive level, as a temporary
>> workaround."

> Is there a particular reason EAPI 2 is left alone, or has it already
> been deprecated/banned?

EAPIs 1 and 2 have been banned already in 2014:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Package_Manager_Specification#EAPI_life_cycle

> I'm generally in favor of lowering the number of EAPIs we need to
> worry about, especially since iirc EAPI 6 brings a handful of nice
> things to the table.

Ulrich

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

[gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Justin Lecher (jlec)]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 219 bytes --]

Dear all,

the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, February 14 at 19:00 UTC
in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.

Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
or vote on.

Justin


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 959 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Dirkjan Ochtman]

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) <jlec@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
> or vote on.

Since we were unable to reach consensus so far, I would like to submit
the issue of picking a new XML validation language to the Council.

Pretty much all the relevant information is in this thread:
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/a1825d5b2a2a16e9e027f6e8dc6d1fd8

If RELAX NG were chosen, I volunteer to convert all the DTDs that are
still relevant. (Hopefully someone else will step forward if XML
Schema is chosen, instead.)

Cheers,

Dirkjan

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Justin Lecher (jlec)]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 873 bytes --]

On 02/02/16 09:06, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) <jlec@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
>> or vote on.
> 
> Since we were unable to reach consensus so far, I would like to submit
> the issue of picking a new XML validation language to the Council.
> 
> Pretty much all the relevant information is in this thread:
> https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/a1825d5b2a2a16e9e027f6e8dc6d1fd8
> 
> If RELAX NG were chosen, I volunteer to convert all the DTDs that are
> still relevant. (Hopefully someone else will step forward if XML
> Schema is chosen, instead.)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dirkjan
> 

Thanks Dirkjan,

Could you please sum up the thread and come up with some precise
question we should discuss or vote on.

Thanks,
Justin


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 959 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Michał Górny]

Dnia 2 lutego 2016 09:06:30 CET, Dirkjan Ochtman <djc@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
>On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) <jlec@gentoo.org>
>wrote:
>> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to
>discuss
>> or vote on.
>
>Since we were unable to reach consensus so far, I would like to submit
>the issue of picking a new XML validation language to the Council.
>
>Pretty much all the relevant information is in this thread:
>https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/a1825d5b2a2a16e9e027f6e8dc6d1fd8
>
>If RELAX NG were chosen, I volunteer to convert all the DTDs that are
>still relevant. (Hopefully someone else will step forward if XML
>Schema is chosen, instead.)

I think I was the only person wanting XML Schema. Feel free to go with RELAX NG since that seems to work for more current uses.

Just please keep only one format in the repository, and do conversion infra-side. Preferably let's create a new repo for that, and aim at replacing all DTDs (that are still used) with it.

One more question though: is it possible to express key references in RELAX NG? I'm thinking of projects.xml where <subproject ref=''/> should match some other <project><email/></project>.

>
>Cheers,
>
>Dirkjan


-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny (by phone)

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Robin H. Johnson]

On Tue, Feb 02, 2016 at 04:25:15PM +0100, Michał Górny wrote:
> I think I was the only person wanting XML Schema. Feel free to go with
> RELAX NG since that seems to work for more current uses.
I'd vote for XML-Schema as well, but if there are good transforms
available, i'll live with RNG.
 

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Developer, Infrastructure Lead, Foundation Trustee
E-Mail     : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Ulrich Mueller]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 681 bytes --]

>>>>> On Tue, 2 Feb 2016, Robin H Johnson wrote:

> I'd vote for XML-Schema as well, but if there are good transforms
> available, i'll live with RNG.

Conversion from RNG/RNC to XML-Schema can be done with app-text/trang,
for example. The question (which I had asked in -dev a few days ago)
is if there is a conversion tool for the opposite direction:

>>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016, Ulrich Mueller wrote:

> Emacs nXML mode supports only RNC. Do we have a tool (i.e. a package
> in the tree) for automatic conversion from XML Schema to RNC?

Since nobody has replied to this, I suppose that we have no such tool?
That would be a strong argument for RNG as the source format.

Ulrich

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Robin H. Johnson]

Several of these questions were already answered in the #gentoo-infra
chat that predated the mailing list discussion; I repeat the details
here because it dispels the other concerns.

On Tue, Feb 02, 2016 at 10:11:40PM +0100, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
> > I'd vote for XML-Schema as well, but if there are good transforms
> > available, i'll live with RNG.
> Conversion from RNG/RNC to XML-Schema can be done with app-text/trang,
> for example. The question (which I had asked in -dev a few days ago)
> is if there is a conversion tool for the opposite direction:
Is Trang still actively maintained by upstream? Last release looks like
2009? It also cannot convert FROM XML-Schema, only TO XML-Schema.
There is also MSV, dev-java/msv, with a last release in 2013.

> >>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
> > Emacs nXML mode supports only RNC. Do we have a tool (i.e. a package
> > in the tree) for automatic conversion from XML Schema to RNC?
> Since nobody has replied to this, I suppose that we have no such tool?
> That would be a strong argument for RNG as the source format.
All you need is xsltproc, which is part of libxslt/libxml.

XSL transform: XSD -> RNG
https://github.com/epiasini/xsdtorng

XSL Transform: XSD -> DTD
http://bsp.mits.ch/code/xslt/zxsd2dtd
http://crism.maden.org/consulting/pub/xsl/xsd2dtd.xsl
These two are very similar, differing only in a comment block warning
that some RNG/XML-Schema constraints cannot be represented in DTD.

Both Trang and MSV are also Java, whereas the XSLT transforms are usable
without Java.

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Developer, Infrastructure Lead, Foundation Trustee
E-Mail     : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Ulrich Mueller]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1635 bytes --]

>>>>> On Tue, 2 Feb 2016, Robin H Johnson wrote:

> Is Trang still actively maintained by upstream? Last release looks
> like 2009?

No idea. It seems to work just fine, though.

> It also cannot convert FROM XML-Schema, only TO XML-Schema.
> There is also MSV, dev-java/msv, with a last release in 2013.

Hm, how does one use MSV for conversion? There's little documentation
included with the package.

>> >>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
>> > Do we have a tool (i.e. a package in the tree) for automatic
>> > conversion from XML Schema to RNC?
>> Since nobody has replied to this, I suppose that we have no such
>> tool? That would be a strong argument for RNG as the source format.

> All you need is xsltproc, which is part of libxslt/libxml.

> XSL transform: XSD -> RNG
> https://github.com/epiasini/xsdtorng

> XSL Transform: XSD -> DTD
> http://bsp.mits.ch/code/xslt/zxsd2dtd
> http://crism.maden.org/consulting/pub/xsl/xsd2dtd.xsl
> These two are very similar, differing only in a comment block
> warning that some RNG/XML-Schema constraints cannot be represented
> in DTD.

It would be nicer if these were released under a free software
license. I don't think that http://bsp.mits.ch/download/lizenz
qualifies (as it allows only private use and distribution at no
charge). Sorry to be pedantic.

> Both Trang and MSV are also Java, whereas the XSLT transforms are
> usable without Java.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my general impression is that
the situation with respect to converters leaves much to be desired.
At least, if we require a tool that is both well maintained and free
software.

Ulrich

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Dirkjan Ochtman]

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) <jlec@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Could you please sum up the thread and come up with some precise
> question we should discuss or vote on.

The question is: what language should we use for XML validation in the future?

There are two main contenders: RELAX NG (with a compact and an XML
serialization) and XML Schema. Of course conversion between these
schema formats is possible, but the question is what the canonical
language should be and what other formats would be provided (and how).

Summary:

- I contended that RELAX NG compact serialization is more readable,
and that DTD and RELAX NG validation are equally fast. I don't have
much experience with XML Schema, but I do have a conversion tool for
RNC (compact RELAX NG) -> RNG (RELAX NG XML syntax).
- Michał has used both RELAX NG and XML Schema, and prefers the
latter. It's more popular, and it seems that cross-referencing things
is not supported (trivially) in RELAX NG, whereas it should be in XML
Schema.
- Robin prefers XML Schema, but can live with both.
- trang seems to be a pretty decent tool for schema conversion, but it
doesn't handle XML Schema as an input language (likely because of the
complexity of XML Schema).
- There is a standard for referring to RELAX NG or XML Schema schemas
from XML documents, which would be useful for tool authors.
- emacs nXML mode works only with RNC schema, which is a reason for
Ulrich to prefer it.
- Brian seems to like RNC for readability/flexibility reasons.

I hope other will jump in if they feel I missed
something/misrepresented their opinions.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Justin Lecher (jlec)]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1833 bytes --]

On 03/02/16 21:46, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) <jlec@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Could you please sum up the thread and come up with some precise
>> question we should discuss or vote on.
> 
> The question is: what language should we use for XML validation in the future?
> 
> There are two main contenders: RELAX NG (with a compact and an XML
> serialization) and XML Schema. Of course conversion between these
> schema formats is possible, but the question is what the canonical
> language should be and what other formats would be provided (and how).
> 
> Summary:
> 
> - I contended that RELAX NG compact serialization is more readable,
> and that DTD and RELAX NG validation are equally fast. I don't have
> much experience with XML Schema, but I do have a conversion tool for
> RNC (compact RELAX NG) -> RNG (RELAX NG XML syntax).
> - Michał has used both RELAX NG and XML Schema, and prefers the
> latter. It's more popular, and it seems that cross-referencing things
> is not supported (trivially) in RELAX NG, whereas it should be in XML
> Schema.
> - Robin prefers XML Schema, but can live with both.
> - trang seems to be a pretty decent tool for schema conversion, but it
> doesn't handle XML Schema as an input language (likely because of the
> complexity of XML Schema).
> - There is a standard for referring to RELAX NG or XML Schema schemas
> from XML documents, which would be useful for tool authors.
> - emacs nXML mode works only with RNC schema, which is a reason for
> Ulrich to prefer it.
> - Brian seems to like RNC for readability/flexibility reasons.
> 
> I hope other will jump in if they feel I missed
> something/misrepresented their opinions.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dirkjan
> 

Thanks Dirkjan for the summary.

Justin


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 959 bytes --]

[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Anthony G. Basile]

On 2/1/16 2:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, February 14 at 19:00 UTC
> in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
> 
> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
> or vote on.
> 
> Justin
> 

Hi everyone,

Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that he's not
coming back to Gentoo.  Of course, we all have these moments when we
feel frustrated and have to get away from the madhouse, but if hasufell
is serious, we need to do something with his packages.  He maintains a
bunch of important packages and leads an important project (libressl).
I've taken on libressl and mbedtls as a second maintainer, but we should
think about the other packages.

If he's reading this, I would really like him back since he's a talented
contributor, but score low on charisma and I'm not sure I can persuade him.

-- 
Anthony G. Basile, Ph. D.
Chair of Information Technology
D'Youville College
Buffalo, NY 14201
(716) 829-8197

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Daniel Campbell]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 02/04/2016 02:07 AM, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
> On 2/1/16 2:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, February 14 at
>> 19:00 UTC in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
>> 
>> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to
>> discuss or vote on.
>> 
>> Justin
>> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that he's
> not coming back to Gentoo.  Of course, we all have these moments
> when we feel frustrated and have to get away from the madhouse, but
> if hasufell is serious, we need to do something with his packages.
> He maintains a bunch of important packages and leads an important
> project (libressl). I've taken on libressl and mbedtls as a second
> maintainer, but we should think about the other packages.
> 
> If he's reading this, I would really like him back since he's a
> talented contributor, but score low on charisma and I'm not sure I
> can persuade him.
> 

If there's a way to get a list of the packages he maintained, I'm
willing to look through it and pick up anything I use or am familiar with.

I, too, am no good with charisma and persuasion. We're all volunteers,
so if hasufell isn't getting any satisfaction from Gentoo anymore,
what can we really do? I have a feeling there's a lot more to this
than what lies on the surface, but I doubt anyone should air any
specifics unless hasufell or others are completely okay with it.

Whatever his reasons, if hasufell leaves I hope he can find something
he enjoys. His work in games and discussions on gentoo-dev are part of
what urged me to become a developer. I use his Portage config to use
gentoo.git as my portage tree, too.

- -- 
Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer
OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C  1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2
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=y2yX
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Daniel Campbell]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 02/04/2016 11:49 PM, Daniel Campbell wrote:
> On 02/04/2016 02:07 AM, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
>> On 2/1/16 2:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>> 
>>> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, February 14 at 
>>> 19:00 UTC in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
>>> 
>>> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us
>>> to discuss or vote on.
>>> 
>>> Justin
>>> 
> 
>> Hi everyone,
> 
>> Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that
>> he's not coming back to Gentoo.  Of course, we all have these
>> moments when we feel frustrated and have to get away from the
>> madhouse, but if hasufell is serious, we need to do something
>> with his packages. He maintains a bunch of important packages and
>> leads an important project (libressl). I've taken on libressl and
>> mbedtls as a second maintainer, but we should think about the
>> other packages.
> 
>> If he's reading this, I would really like him back since he's a 
>> talented contributor, but score low on charisma and I'm not sure
>> I can persuade him.
> 
> 
> If there's a way to get a list of the packages he maintained, I'm 
> willing to look through it and pick up anything I use or am
> familiar with.
> 
> I, too, am no good with charisma and persuasion. We're all
> volunteers, so if hasufell isn't getting any satisfaction from
> Gentoo anymore, what can we really do? I have a feeling there's a
> lot more to this than what lies on the surface, but I doubt anyone
> should air any specifics unless hasufell or others are completely
> okay with it.
> 
> Whatever his reasons, if hasufell leaves I hope he can find
> something he enjoys. His work in games and discussions on
> gentoo-dev are part of what urged me to become a developer. I use
> his Portage config to use gentoo.git as my portage tree, too.
> 
> 

Nevermind; with a little grep and find magic and a sprinkle of vim, here:

app-admin/mcelog
app-admin/verynice
app-arch/innoextract
app-crypt/zuluCrypt
app-eselect/eselect-renpy
app-misc/c_rehash
dev-cpp/luabind
dev-db/mariadb
dev-db/mariadb-galera
dev-db/mysql
dev-db/mysql-cluster
dev-db/percona-server
dev-lang/elixir
dev-libs/angelscript
dev-libs/libntru
dev-libs/libressl
dev-libs/libuv
dev-lua/luvit
dev-python/pathtools
dev-python/pygame_sdl2
dev-python/python-application
dev-python/python-cjson
dev-python/python-eventlib
dev-python/python-gnutls
dev-python/python-msrplib
dev-python/python-sipsimple
dev-python/python-xcaplib
dev-python/pyuv
dev-python/watchdog
dev-util/ninja-ide
dev-util/xxdi
dev-vcs/git-imerge
games-arcade/mari0
games-engines/openmw
games-engines/renpy
games-roguelike/stone-soup
games-rpg/a-bird-story
games-rpg/arx-fatalis-data
games-rpg/arx-fatalis-demo
games-rpg/arx-libertatis
games-rpg/avadon
games-rpg/wasteland2
games-strategy/0ad
games-strategy/0ad-data
games-strategy/openra
gnustep-apps/sogo
gnustep-libs/sope
media-gfx/blender
media-gfx/pornview
media-sound/pnmixer
media-video/ffdiaporama
net-dns/dnscrypt-proxy
net-firewall/pglinux
net-im/bitlbee-steam
net-im/purple-events
net-irc/hexchat
net-libs/mbedtls
net-misc/connman-gtk
net-misc/connman-ui
net-misc/youtube-viewer
net-p2p/pybitmessage
net-voip/blink
sci-geosciences/cdat-lite
sci-geosciences/congen
sci-geosciences/tcd-utils
sci-libs/libspatialindex
www-apps/hiawatha-monitor
www-servers/hiawatha
x11-misc/gpaste
x11-misc/sunflower
x11-plugins/hexchat-javascript
x11-plugins/pidgin-birthday-reminder
x11-plugins/pidgin-opensteamworks
x11-plugins/purple-libnotify-plus
x11-terms/terra
x11-themes/geany-themes
x11-wm/i3
xfce-extra/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin

- ---

Out of the above list, I'd be willing to take over x11-wm/i3.
- -- 
Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer
OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C  1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2
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=t9dk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Anthony G. Basile]

On 2/5/16 3:01 AM, Daniel Campbell wrote:
> ---
> 
> Out of the above list, I'd be willing to take over x11-wm/i3.
> 

I have an idea that I'll pass by the council on the 14th.  Basically,

1) we officially contact hasufell as the council

2) wait a week

3a) if he says he is coming back, then do nothing
3b) if he says he might come back or doesn't answer then maintainers can
adopt a package at will, making themselves first maintainer and hasufell
second.  packages that are not adopted after some time can be moved to
maintainer needed
3c) if he says he won't come back ever, period, full stop, then, as sad
as it is, its open season

I don't know how much community discussion this needs, but that's what
I'm going to propose.  As may be noted a few packages there are
important and we don't want them left unmaintained while at the same
time leaving the door open.  Currently I'm baby sitting libressl and
mbedtls.


-- 
Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D.
Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened]
E-Mail    : blueness@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP  : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB  DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA
GnuPG ID  : F52D4BBA

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Alexander Berntsen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Julian still maintains everything in his own overlays AFAIR, so that
should make things somewhat easier for new maintainers.

- -- 
Alexander
bernalex@gentoo.org
https://secure.plaimi.net/~alexander
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2
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=nebF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Rich Freeman]

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Anthony G. Basile <blueness@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 3a) if he says he is coming back, then do nothing
> 3b) if he says he might come back or doesn't answer then maintainers can
> adopt a package at will, making themselves first maintainer and hasufell
> second.  packages that are not adopted after some time can be moved to
> maintainer needed
> 3c) if he says he won't come back ever, period, full stop, then, as sad
> as it is, its open season

We can talk about a council email, but in general anybody can
co-maintain anything in Gentoo without anybody's blessing.  I don't
think we need to treat this situation any differently than any other.
I think the only real question as far as maintainership goes is
whether he is gone for good or not, in which case existing packages to
go maintainer-needed.

If somebody wants to start co-maintaining some of those packages today
they don't need to wait for a council blessing.  They should just add
themselves to the metadata.  That doesn't preclude hasufell from
continuing to co-maintain when he returns.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Anthony G. Basile]

On 2/5/16 7:13 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Anthony G. Basile <blueness@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> 3a) if he says he is coming back, then do nothing
>> 3b) if he says he might come back or doesn't answer then maintainers can
>> adopt a package at will, making themselves first maintainer and hasufell
>> second.  packages that are not adopted after some time can be moved to
>> maintainer needed
>> 3c) if he says he won't come back ever, period, full stop, then, as sad
>> as it is, its open season
> 
> We can talk about a council email, but in general anybody can
> co-maintain anything in Gentoo without anybody's blessing. 

I was thinking first maintainer so you get assigned the bug.  But that's
a small point.


-- 
Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D.
Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened]
E-Mail    : blueness@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP  : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB  DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA
GnuPG ID  : F52D4BBA

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Daniel Campbell (zlg)]

-------- Original Message --------
From: "Anthony G. Basile" <blueness@gentoo.org>
Sent: February 5, 2016 3:49:42 AM PST
To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

On 2/5/16 3:01 AM, Daniel Campbell wrote:
> ---
> 
> Out of the above list, I'd be willing to take over x11-wm/i3.
> 

I have an idea that I'll pass by the council on the 14th.  Basically,

1) we officially contact hasufell as the council

2) wait a week

3a) if he says he is coming back, then do nothing
3b) if he says he might come back or doesn't answer then maintainers can
adopt a package at will, making themselves first maintainer and hasufell
second.  packages that are not adopted after some time can be moved to
maintainer needed
3c) if he says he won't come back ever, period, full stop, then, as sad
as it is, its open season

I don't know how much community discussion this needs, but that's what
I'm going to propose.  As may be noted a few packages there are
important and we don't want them left unmaintained while at the same
time leaving the door open.  Currently I'm baby sitting libressl and
mbedtls.
That sounds like a good idea to me. I think it's fair to treat something like this with same caution and gravity. It'd be hasty of us to divvy out packages at the first sign of a developer losing interest in or becoming angry with Gentoo. As you said, sometimes it gets to you. Personal lives have a way of influencing professional lives and volunteer work, and volunteer work is usually the first to suffer.

I'll wait for a council decision before touching anything.
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Daniel Campbell (zlg)]

Ugh, sorry. I still can't get K-9 to let me reply at the bottom, so my reply got mixed in at the bottom of yours! *sigh*


-------- Original Message --------
From: "Daniel Campbell (zlg)" <zlg@gentoo.org>
Sent: February 5, 2016 11:00:45 AM PST
To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14




-------- Original Message --------
From: "Anthony G. Basile" <blueness@gentoo.org>
Sent: February 5, 2016 3:49:42 AM PST
To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

On 2/5/16 3:01 AM, Daniel Campbell wrote:
> ---
> 
> Out of the above list, I'd be willing to take over x11-wm/i3.
> 

I have an idea that I'll pass by the council on the 14th.  Basically,

1) we officially contact hasufell as the council

2) wait a week

3a) if he says he is coming back, then do nothing
3b) if he says he might come back or doesn't answer then maintainers can
adopt a package at will, making themselves first maintainer and hasufell
second.  packages that are not adopted after some time can be moved to
maintainer needed
3c) if he says he won't come back ever, period, full stop, then, as sad
as it is, its open season

I don't know how much community discussion this needs, but that's what
I'm going to propose.  As may be noted a few packages there are
important and we don't want them left unmaintained while at the same
time leaving the door open.  Currently I'm baby sitting libressl and
mbedtls.
That sounds like a good idea to me. I think it's fair to treat something like this with same caution and gravity. It'd be hasty of us to divvy out packages at the first sign of a developer losing interest in or becoming angry with Gentoo. As you said, sometimes it gets to you. Personal lives have a way of influencing professional lives and volunteer work, and volunteer work is usually the first to suffer.

I'll wait for a council decision before touching anything.

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Ciaran McCreesh]

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 05:07:57 -0500
"Anthony G. Basile" <basile@opensource.dyc.edu> wrote:
> Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that he's not
> coming back to Gentoo.  Of course, we all have these moments when we
> feel frustrated and have to get away from the madhouse, but if
> hasufell is serious, we need to do something with his packages.

It's a shame a few poisonous developers have chosen to create such a
toxic environment for anyone who dares become involved with a different
package mangler. What can the community do to make sure this doesn't
happen again?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Rich Freeman]

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:24 PM, Ciaran McCreesh
<ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 05:07:57 -0500
> "Anthony G. Basile" <basile@opensource.dyc.edu> wrote:
>> Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that he's not
>> coming back to Gentoo.  Of course, we all have these moments when we
>> feel frustrated and have to get away from the madhouse, but if
>> hasufell is serious, we need to do something with his packages.
>
> It's a shame a few poisonous developers have chosen to create such a
> toxic environment for anyone who dares become involved with a different
> package mangler. What can the community do to make sure this doesn't
> happen again?
>

I think I missed something.  Are you referring to his interest in
NixOS?  I don't think I've seen anything on the lists about that other
than just general interest/etc.

In any case, if anybody is having trouble getting alternative package
managers supported in Gentoo I'm certainly interested.  I thought we
put that kind of arguing behind us years ago.

-- 
Rich

Re: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Andreas K. Huettel]

> On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 05:07:57 -0500
> 
> "Anthony G. Basile" <basile@opensource.dyc.edu> wrote:
> > Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that he's not
> > coming back to Gentoo.  Of course, we all have these moments when we
> > feel frustrated and have to get away from the madhouse, but if
> > hasufell is serious, we need to do something with his packages.
> 
> It's a shame a few poisonous developers have chosen to create such a
> toxic environment for anyone who dares become involved with a different
> package mangler. What can the community do to make sure this doesn't
> happen again?

Isn't it beautiful when nice and friendly people meet each other? :)

-- 
Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer
perl, office, comrel, council

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Alexander Berntsen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 05/02/16 20:24, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> It's a shame a few poisonous developers have chosen to create such
> a toxic environment for anyone who dares become involved with a
> different package mangler. What can the community do to make sure
> this doesn't happen again?
The issues Julian have with Gentoo are not as petty as you seem to
indicate. Thanks though -- I literally LOLd.
- -- 
Alexander
bernalex@gentoo.org
https://secure.plaimi.net/~alexander
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2
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=CcJy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Santiago Ferreira]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2212 bytes --]

Hi everyone,
My name is Santiago Ferreira (aka sanux) , I'm from Uruguay.
I been using Gentoo for a while, from time to time I use another Linux
distribution too(when I need a system running and I have less time to
compile it), but I really like Gentoo because It's the Linux flavour that
helps me more in learning and gives me a lot of freedom of choice.

I want to start contributing more to the project, in the past I participate
in a few bugs days and was a really nice experience.
Step by step I want to become a Gentoo developer, so just in case, I
introduce me, and let me know where to start, hope that Julien re-think his
decision, seems I could learn a lot with him, he is maintaining a lot of
packages.

all the best

Santiago



On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:12 PM, Alexander Berntsen <bernalex@gentoo.org>
wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> On 05/02/16 20:24, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > It's a shame a few poisonous developers have chosen to create such
> > a toxic environment for anyone who dares become involved with a
> > different package mangler. What can the community do to make sure
> > this doesn't happen again?
> The issues Julian have with Gentoo are not as petty as you seem to
> indicate. Thanks though -- I literally LOLd.
> - --
> Alexander
> bernalex@gentoo.org
> https://secure.plaimi.net/~alexander
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
>
> iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJWtSx5AAoJENQqWdRUGk8B9sQP/iyYpEPNN7FKIF67jGcn0CyB
> S4qi0wbHyUP8K7yfS2YueXH/oCXTpNlEtU3ZC6ZRiWS7UIeL6HvXgwbFHtkwYvAJ
> 1snltSA1GhXUmJ8OUuZlitE+D7iUfAl0upc0SpRh2zeRfRYHUBEzzuZdjqDB/ApZ
> lEu15zoCK4id28n3apQa+3TJ+labrM7UsMXZLuPjq9cSQJF9POCTh1e7ykYENqrD
> h2Un0qNpDijm+cZS1hdi1JU9J3uwv7I0vmT2Sl4UHEotCsIyc9McMqS2bxJcvO0K
> uPXahJtp1qmydx3vbmW+2kV7POwCDAzaNX0HESEs10wYqa+mNe78NEe3JYAly1+C
> 2rjhd5kogTaTR5ljY094mql+rvMaZ/I/kLBOFECmqI5yZ4Aw6Z6+PJ7CJLw00x5p
> tSinavW2ZSOVDzgpTIXgV6I0I+DArqbPN18NpIZJGdCIsuSFqNb4bSe+BUsn5Wwq
> BRf6qpZwxU7re7xQQsqMI3UUoXh+epobJW+Q7rHh1vmc3JWJQhSzO7AGFio/7UNK
> a7WDp7y0UDAjny+SUhj1+ZU6/T2gxKU62kvfhxBP6fdizkhKxn7+PMI7kXZfsTq6
> 6IRzxj8AD+1sARLxk+dRzHLJozZ59nsbCn/tu+JzwkbJ3A7zA7jwV0LSJ8+OjYhF
> pTKy4AhrE78bYg5rpVn1
> =CcJy
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2974 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Andrew Savchenko]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4001 bytes --]

Hi all,

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 20:25:20 +0100 Justin Lecher (jlec) wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, February 14 at 19:00 UTC
> in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
> 
> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
> or vote on.

I'd like to ask the Council on the matter of bugs assignment
automation. The issue is discussed in the following thread:

https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/c9675f0359679007054b57de123c0bf3

The first question: Should we automate bugs assignment if one and
only one valid "category/package" is present in the bug's title?

1. Yes, automate assignment of all new bugs.
2. Yes, but only allow such automation for users with bug
assignment capabilities (e.g. put a button for bug-wranglers).
3. No, keep current status quo.

The second question (only if answers 1 or 2 were selected for the
first question): Should we automate assignment for bugs with
multiple maintainers?

1. Yes, assign to the first maintainer, CC all other.
2. No, leave this bugs to bug-wranglers.

The third question (only if answer 1 was selected for the first
question): For bugs that will be automated should automation be
delayed so, that bug wranglers will have an opportunity to review
such bugs?

1. Yes, delay bugs assignment for N day(s). (N is to be
determined by the Council as well.)
2. No, assign them immediately.  

***************************************************************

Summary of opinions (excuse me if I missed something) (roman
numerals stands for the question number, question/answer format):

I/1
Pros: 
  a) We save a lot of the manpower.
  b) Latency of bugs handling will be decreased.
Cons:
  a) In some corner cases it is possible that bugs will be
improperly assigned and due to inactive developers they may be never
be properly assigned.
  b) Incomplete bug reports will be occasionally assigned to
developers (e.g. with missing emerge --info or build logs), thus
developers will have to request such information themselves. 

I/2
Pros: 
  a) Human check of bugs will reduce error rate for corner cases
or incomplete bug reports which automation can't handle properly.
  b) We still save some manpower (e.g. reduce load on
bug-wranglers).
Cons:
  a) We loose a lot of man-power.
  b) Latency of bugs assignment and thus handling is increased.

I/3
Pros:
  a) Keep current well-known more-or-less working state of matters.
Cons:
  a) A huge load on bug-wranglers, most (all?) of them are devs
which can spend their time to actually fix bugs.
  b) Large latency of bugs assignment (may be more than a
week for some bugs and several days in general) is kept.

II/1
Pros:
  a) A large number of packages contains multiple maintainers, so
including them into automation process will sufficiently increase
effectiveness of the automation.
  b) This approach already works well for tinderbox ran by Toralf
Förster (we have a lot of good bug reports by this tinderbox).
Cons:
  a) It is rare but possible that first maintainer is not the
recepient where bugs should be assigned, thus real assignee will be
in the CC.

II/2
Pros:
  a) Probability of bug assignment (versus CC'ing) to the wrong
maintainer is eliminated.
Cons:
  a) A whole lot of packages is excluded from the automation
process.

III/1
Pros:
  a) Probability of catching incomplete reports or wrong bug
assignments by the human being is increased.
Cons:
  b) Burden on bug-wranglers is increased considerably.
  c) Latency of bugs assignment and handling is increased.

III/2
Pros:
  a) We save a lot of manpower for actual Gentoo development.
  b) Zero latency in assignment may lead to faster bugs resolving
and improved user experience.
Cons:
  a) In corner cases bugs may be misassigned.
  b) If bugs are not complete, developers will have to request
required information themselves.

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 819 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Ian Delaney]

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 05:07:57 -0500
"Anthony G. Basile" <basile@opensource.dyc.edu> wrote:

> On 2/1/16 2:25 PM, Justin Lecher (jlec) wrote:
> > Dear all,
> > 
> > the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, February 14 at 19:00
> > UTC in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
> > 
> > Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to
> > discuss or vote on.
> > 
> > Justin
> >   
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Julian (aka hasufell) indicated to me in a private email that he's not
> coming back to Gentoo.  Of course, we all have these moments when we
> feel frustrated and have to get away from the madhouse, but if
> hasufell is serious, we need to do something with his packages.  He
> maintains a bunch of important packages and leads an important
> project (libressl). I've taken on libressl and mbedtls as a second
> maintainer, but we should think about the other packages.
> 
> If he's reading this, I would really like him back since he's a
> talented contributor, but score low on charisma and I'm not sure I
> can persuade him.
> 

You won't

-- 
kind regards

Ian Delaney

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Michał Górny]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2340 bytes --]

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 20:25:20 +0100
"Justin Lecher (jlec)" <jlec@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> the Gentoo Council will meet again on Sunday, February 14 at 19:00 UTC
> in #gentoo-council on FreeNode.
> 
> Please reply to this message with any items you would like us to discuss
> or vote on.

Since the agenda hasn't been sent yet, I would like the Council to
consider helping out with removing cases of 'use*' function calls in
global scope.

The issue is known for quite some time already, and the offending
ebuilds and eclasses are currently tracked in bug #566518 [1].

Those functions can not be used in global scope as their results depend
on configuration. This causes two major issues:

1. it breaks metadata invariancy -- the ebuild metadata may change
dependening on value of USE flags, therefore either invalidating caches
or causing the package manager to obtain incorrect results from cache,

2. it causes circular dependencies in configuration -- USE flags can be
applied to specific SLOTs, SLOTs may depend on USE flags...

The global scope use calls were always forbidden by the PMS. Portage
bans it in EAPI 6 but we'd like to extend the ban to the remaining
EAPIs. However, at the moment we can't because that would cause
existing violations to prevent users from installing toolchain.

So far most of the developers understood the issue and fixed their
violations. However, for years toolchain is actively refusing to do so,
and either closing our requests or blocking them with request to
provide support for USE-dynamic SLOTs. Which is quite unlikely to be
fulfilled since it would still cause the second issue listed above.

Sadly, our inability to ban this is causing new violations to be
committed accidentally by developers.

Therefore, I would like to ask for Council's help on this issue. I see
the possible following actions that would help the cause:

a. officially refusing the 'dynamic slot' request [2] so that it would
not be used to block fixing the QA violations indefinitely,

b. setting an official deadline on fixing the remaining violations
and making the calls fatal.

[1]:https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=566518
[2]:https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=174407

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny
<http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/>

[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 949 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Anthony G. Basile]

On 2/12/16 5:22 PM, Michał Górny wrote:

> 
> Therefore, I would like to ask for Council's help on this issue. I see
> the possible following actions that would help the cause:
> 
> a. officially refusing the 'dynamic slot' request [2] so that it would
> not be used to block fixing the QA violations indefinitely,
> 
> b. setting an official deadline on fixing the remaining violations
> and making the calls fatal.
> 
> [1]:https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=566518
> [2]:https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=174407
> 

I was aware of, but haven't really thought through, toolchain.eclass use
of use* in global scope.  Do you have a solution?  I'm okay with putting
pressure on developers but if its a technically difficult problem, I'd
rather be part of the solution than the problem.

-- 
Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D.
Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened]
E-Mail    : blueness@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP  : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB  DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA
GnuPG ID  : F52D4BBA

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Andreas K. Huettel]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Am Freitag, 12. Februar 2016, 23:34:50 schrieben Sie:

> I was aware of, but haven't really thought through, toolchain.eclass use
> of use* in global scope.  Do you have a solution?  I'm okay with putting
> pressure on developers but if its a technically difficult problem, I'd
> rather be part of the solution than the problem.

So far nobody has been able to explain to me what the actual need for the 
multislot "switch" for gcc in our main portage tree is. I'll be happy to be 
taught why this isnt just lazyness and/or power play.

Having multiple gcc's of same *minor* version (i.e. 4.8.1, 4.8.2, ...) 
installed at the same time for testing purposes is a valid use case, but way 
more exotic than e.g. running KDE git master. Code our users imho shouldnt 
even see by default. -> overlay

Over the years many related bugs have been filed, but they tend to magically 
enter RESOLVED state without any substantial changes to reality.

- -- 
Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer 
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.1
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=/rBt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2016-02-14

[Michał Górny]

Dnia 12 lutego 2016 23:34:50 CET, "Anthony G. Basile" <blueness@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
>On 2/12/16 5:22 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
>
>> 
>> Therefore, I would like to ask for Council's help on this issue. I
>see
>> the possible following actions that would help the cause:
>> 
>> a. officially refusing the 'dynamic slot' request [2] so that it
>would
>> not be used to block fixing the QA violations indefinitely,
>> 
>> b. setting an official deadline on fixing the remaining violations
>> and making the calls fatal.
>> 
>> [1]:https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=566518
>> [2]:https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=174407
>> 
>
>I was aware of, but haven't really thought through, toolchain.eclass
>use
>of use* in global scope.  Do you have a solution?  I'm okay with
>putting
>pressure on developers but if its a technically difficult problem, I'd
>rather be part of the solution than the problem.

There was a number of possible alternatives discussed on the future EAPI bug. So far with no real consensus.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny (by phone)